From jgrehan at sciencebuff.org Thu May 1 10:28:33 2008 From: jgrehan at sciencebuff.org (John Grehan) Date: Thu May 1 10:28:56 2008 Subject: [PS] body fat Message-ID: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBE5@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> I'm not sure if I have asked this question of this list before, so please excuse me if I have. Some years ago an orangutan biologist made the remark that orangutans are more like humans than African apes when it comes to the deposition of excess fat. My impression also is that orangutans can become very obese when in fed too much relative to activity when in captivity whereas I do not get the impression that this occurs to the same extent in African apes (or other primates). When I asked for more information the biologist clamed up. She was intensely opposed to the orangutan theory of human origin so I suppose she was not pleased that here was an item of biology that may bear positively on that possibility. One would think that it would be fairly easy to confirm whether orangutans can put on more body fat than African apes, but so far I have not been able to come across any literature. If anyone on this list has familiarity with ape obesity or can direct me to individuals who could settle this question (and be willing to tell me), I would be most grateful. John Grehan Dr. John R. Grehan Director of Science and Collections Buffalo Museum of Science1020 Humboldt Parkway Buffalo, NY 14211-1193 email: jgrehan@sciencebuff.org Phone: (716) 896-5200 ext 372 Panbiogeography http://www.sciencebuff.org/biogeography_and_evolutionary_biology.php Ghost moth research http://www.sciencebuff.org/systematics_and_evolution_of_hepialdiae.php Human evolution and the great apes http://www.sciencebuff.org/human_origin_and_the_great_apes.php -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080501/a20f1117/attachment.html From lowlandgorilla at aol.com Thu May 1 11:11:53 2008 From: lowlandgorilla at aol.com (lowlandgorilla@aol.com) Date: Thu May 1 11:12:32 2008 Subject: [PS] body fat In-Reply-To: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBE5@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> References: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBE5@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> Message-ID: <8CA79BD33E49996-15E8-FD0@webmail-nc13.sysops.aol.com> John, Gorillas can and do become obese in captivity when they are fed both the wrong items and too much of it.?Over the years, we have adjusted diets to reduce caloric/sugar intakes. In the early years of caring for captive apes the animals were often given very large amounts of fruits and other food items that led to obesity and probably early death. Mountain gorillas never survived in captivity?-improper diet (along?with other issues) was part of the problem. First, I will email you privately then forward your post to others that may have some answers. Rick Murphy -----Original Message----- From: John Grehan To: primate-science@primate.wisc.edu Sent: Thu, 1 May 2008 8:28 am Subject: [PS] body fat I?m not sure if I have asked this question of this list before, so please excuse me if I have. Some years ago an orangutan biologist made the remark that orangutans are more like humans than African apes when it comes to the deposition of excess fat. My impression also is that orangutans can become very obese when in fed too much relative to activity when in captivity whereas I do not get the impression that this occurs to the same extent in African apes (or other primates). When I asked for more information the biologist clamed up. She was intensely opposed to the orangutan theory of human origin so I suppose she was not pleased that here was an item of biology that may bear positively on that possibility. ? One would think that it would be fairly easy to confirm whether orangutans can put on more body fat than African apes, but so far I have not been able to come across any literature. If anyone on this list has familiarity with ape obesity or can direct me to individuals who could settle this question (and be willing to tell me), I would be most grateful. ? John Grehan ? Dr. John R. Grehan Director of Science and Collections Buffalo Museum of Science1020 Humboldt Parkway Buffalo, NY 14211-1193 email: jgrehan@sciencebuff.org Phone: (716) 896-5200 ext 372 ? Panbiogeography http://www.sciencebuff.org/biogeography_and_evolutionary_biology.php Ghost moth research http://www.sciencebuff.org/systematics_and_evolution_of_hepialdiae.php Human evolution and the great apes http://www.sciencebuff.org/human_origin_and_the_great_apes.php ? ? _______________________________________________ rimate-Science mailing list rimate-Science@primate.wisc.edu ttp://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080501/13af0e6d/attachment.html From Rebecca_Richardson at antiochne.edu Thu May 1 12:08:35 2008 From: Rebecca_Richardson at antiochne.edu (Rebecca Richardson) Date: Thu May 1 12:08:53 2008 Subject: [PS] body fat In-Reply-To: <8CA79BD33E49996-15E8-FD0@webmail-nc13.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA79BD33E49996-15E8-FD0@webmail-nc13.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: would it be helpful to look at increased incidence of heart disease in captive gorillas? I don't really know, but thought I'd bring it up. Rebecca Richardson Antioch New England-Environmental Studies PhD Program Tel: (678) 358-2833 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080501/2c3f64d6/attachment.html From kel at clevelandmetroparks.com Thu May 1 15:56:38 2008 From: kel at clevelandmetroparks.com (Kristen Lukas) Date: Thu May 1 15:57:01 2008 Subject: [PS] body fat In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <009601c8abcd$da371ef0$0202fea9@metroparks.local> Dear Rebecca, We are looking at heart disease in captive gorillas. The Veterinary Advisory Team for the Gorilla Species Survival Plan for AZA (see www.gorillassp.org) launched The Gorilla Health Project in 2007. Check out following news stories: http://www.wksu.org/news/story/21581 http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/unleashed/2008/04/gorilla-heart-d.html Kristen ********************************** Kristen E. Lukas, Ph.D. Chair, Gorilla Species Survival Plan, AZA Curator of Conservation and Science Cleveland Metroparks Zoo 3900 Wildlife Way Cleveland, OH 44109 P: 216-635-2523 F: 216-635-3318 E: kel@clevelandmetroparks.com P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail -----Original Message----- From: primate-science-bounces@primate.wisc.edu [mailto:primate-science-bounces@primate.wisc.edu] On Behalf Of Rebecca Richardson Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 1:09 PM To: lowlandgorilla@aol.com Cc: primate-science@primate.wisc.edu Subject: Re: [PS] body fat would it be helpful to look at increased incidence of heart disease in captive gorillas? I don't really know, but thought I'd bring it up. Rebecca Richardson Antioch New England-Environmental Studies PhD Program Tel: (678) 358-2833 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080501/9c9502a7/attachment.html From lowlandgorilla at aol.com Thu May 1 18:22:34 2008 From: lowlandgorilla at aol.com (lowlandgorilla@aol.com) Date: Thu May 1 18:23:07 2008 Subject: [PS] body fat In-Reply-To: References: <8CA79BD33E49996-15E8-FD0@webmail-nc13.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CA79F95E13AFB0-890-3012@webmail-nd20.sysops.aol.com> Rebecca, Thanks for the email- For many years, heart disease has been a big concern to us. We are now at a time where captive gorillas are fortunate in that several dedicated veterinarians, human doctors, keepers and others have dedicated themselves to studying heart disease?within the captive population. Also, we are working more with researchers in the field in the hopes we can learn more about health issues within the wild population and compare it with the captive population. And more data is coming in about the wild diet. As Kristen pointed out, The Gorilla Health Project is under way so? I would say this is the most exciting time for captive gorilla research and the advancements that are sure to follow. Again, we have so many talented people coming together that I believe we will surely improve the care of captive gorillas. Rick Murphy -----Original Message----- From: Rebecca Richardson To: lowlandgorilla@aol.com Cc: primate-science@primate.wisc.edu Sent: Thu, 1 May 2008 10:08 am Subject: Re: [PS] body fat would it be helpful to look at increased incidence of heart disease in captive gorillas? ?I don't really know, but thought I'd bring it up. Rebecca Richardson Antioch New England-Environmental Studies PhD Program Tel: ????(678) 358-2833 _______________________________________________ Primate-Science mailing list Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080501/3edf9adb/attachment.html From jgrehan at sciencebuff.org Fri May 2 08:09:39 2008 From: jgrehan at sciencebuff.org (John Grehan) Date: Fri May 2 08:09:59 2008 Subject: [PS] orang body fat Message-ID: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF2@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> Thanks to everyone who responded. The balance of information seems to indicate that there is nothing specifically unique about fat deposition or obesity that is uniquely different for orangutans and humans. I dug into the original reference from a correspondent who said "There are features in orangutans such as concealed ovulation and fat storage that they share with humans." So I wanted to check whether this similarity in fat storage was unique to orangutans and humans and since the correspondent declined further response I was left a bit in the dark. This same correspondent also said "Because this [the orangutan theory] is such a minority opinion I am alarmed that you would present this as an alternative theory [to the public] and would use it to guide your reconstruction of Lucy since this theory has been rejected by the anthropological community". In this response you can see how science is represented as what the majority of scientists believe rather than as a process of exploration. In reference to the concealed ovulation, if the outgroup comparison is limited to lesser apes then concealed ovulation is uniquely shared by humans and orangutans, but if the OW monkeys are included then the feature is more problematic since the characteristics are not documented for many species, and some do appear to also have concealed ovulation (although this was once said for gibbons until closer examination). Primate biology is a vast subject which makes it very time consuming to explore character by character (especially when documentation is often poor), so when obscure possibilities like the fat deposition arise, input from a range of people on list such as this really can help a lot. In the other direct I believe by raising questions of phylogenetic meaning in otherwise seemingly obscure biological features I can draw attention to primate biologists to the possibility that such features may be really interesting and deserving of detailed documentation - regardless of where one may stand on the theory of human origins. As an example, I think of the construction of roofs and sometimes walls in orangutans. Despite the fact that this is a unique behavior for humans and orangutans among primates it has never been documented in detail. Similarity, the construction and cradling of leaf dolls has never been described, yet it's potential significance is tremendous. John Grehan Dr. John R. Grehan Director of Science and Collections Buffalo Museum of Science1020 Humboldt Parkway Buffalo, NY 14211-1193 email: jgrehan@sciencebuff.org Phone: (716) 896-5200 ext 372 Panbiogeography http://www.sciencebuff.org/biogeography_and_evolutionary_biology.php Ghost moth research http://www.sciencebuff.org/systematics_and_evolution_of_hepialdiae.php Human evolution and the great apes http://www.sciencebuff.org/human_origin_and_the_great_apes.php -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080502/11ff4a0e/attachment-0001.html From ruidiogo at gwu.edu Fri May 2 08:37:24 2008 From: ruidiogo at gwu.edu (Rui Boliqueime Martins Diogo) Date: Fri May 2 08:37:44 2008 Subject: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny In-Reply-To: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF2@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> References: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF2@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> Message-ID: Hi John, I consider your emails usually very interesting, and I was one of those who defended, some days ago, that we should continue to receive such emails. However, there is one thing that I do not completely understand: if you have all these ideas and characters, why don't you simply try to compile all the data available and do an explicit phylogenetic analysis? I do think that, if you do a fair compilation (including ALL the characters you can, even those that are only shared by humans and chimps, for instance) and an explicit cladistic analysis, and you obtain the results that you usually defend, that could have more impact on researchers. Because so far, after hundreds of emails and several papers, the only type of argumentation I heard is the "my characters are better than yours" type of argumentation that was done in precladistic times, when a researcher A says a certain character X shows that Y and Z are sister-groups, while other researcher says that not, that character W is more important than X. Why, after so much work, so many emails, and several publications, did you never tried/dare to do a proper, explicit cladistic analysis with all the data you have? Cheers, Rui --------------- Dr. Rui Diogo Center for the Advanced Study of Hominid Paleobiology Department of Anthropology The George Washington University 2110 G St. NW Washington, DC 20052, USA Email - ruidiogo@gwu.edu and Rui_Diogo@hotmail.com "THE ORIGIN OF HIGHER CLADES: OSTEOLOGY, MYOLOGY, PHYLOGENY AND EVOLUTION OF BONY FISHES AND THE RISE OF TETRAPODS" http://www.amazon.com/Origin-Higher-Clades-Osteology-Phylogeny/dp/1578084377/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204230723&sr=8-1 or http://scipub.net/fisheries/origin-higher-clades.html ----- Original Message ----- From: John Grehan Date: Friday, May 2, 2008 9:15 am Subject: [PS] orang body fat To: primate-science@primate.wisc.edu > Thanks to everyone who responded. The balance of information seems to > indicate that there is nothing specifically unique about fat deposition > or obesity that is uniquely different for orangutans and humans. I dug > into the original reference from a correspondent who said "There are > features in orangutans such as concealed ovulation and fat storage that > they share with humans." So I wanted to check whether this similarity > in > fat storage was unique to orangutans and humans and since the > correspondent declined further response I was left a bit in the dark. > This same correspondent also said "Because this [the orangutan theory] > is such a minority opinion I am alarmed that you would present this as > an alternative theory [to the public] and would use it to guide your > reconstruction of Lucy since this theory has been rejected by the > anthropological community". In this response you can see how science > is > represented as what the majority of scientists believe rather than as > a > process of exploration. > > > > In reference to the concealed ovulation, if the outgroup comparison is > limited to lesser apes then concealed ovulation is uniquely shared by > humans and orangutans, but if the OW monkeys are included then the > feature is more problematic since the characteristics are not documented > for many species, and some do appear to also have concealed ovulation > (although this was once said for gibbons until closer examination). > > > > Primate biology is a vast subject which makes it very time consuming > to > explore character by character (especially when documentation is often > poor), so when obscure possibilities like the fat deposition arise, > input from a range of people on list such as this really can help a lot. > In the other direct I believe by raising questions of phylogenetic > meaning in otherwise seemingly obscure biological features I can draw > attention to primate biologists to the possibility that such features > may be really interesting and deserving of detailed documentation - > regardless of where one may stand on the theory of human origins. As > an > example, I think of the construction of roofs and sometimes walls in > orangutans. Despite the fact that this is a unique behavior for humans > and orangutans among primates it has never been documented in detail. > Similarity, the construction and cradling of leaf dolls has never been > described, yet it's potential significance is tremendous. > > > > John Grehan > > > > Dr. John R. Grehan > > Director of Science and Collections > > Buffalo Museum of Science1020 Humboldt Parkway > > Buffalo, NY 14211-1193 > > email: jgrehan@sciencebuff.org > > Phone: (716) 896-5200 ext 372 > > > > Panbiogeography > > > > Ghost moth research > > > > Human evolution and the great apes > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Primate-Science mailing list > Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080502/c91a123b/attachment.html From Rebecca_Richardson at antiochne.edu Fri May 2 09:07:30 2008 From: Rebecca_Richardson at antiochne.edu (Rebecca Richardson) Date: Fri May 2 09:08:41 2008 Subject: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny In-Reply-To: References: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF2@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> Message-ID: quick question - how do gorillas "reveal" their ovulation, as opposed to idea of orantuans/humans having concealed ovulation? Rebecca Richardson Antioch New England-Environmental Studies PhD Program Tel: (678) 358-2833 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080502/88be0f89/attachment.html From lowlandgorilla at aol.com Fri May 2 09:49:43 2008 From: lowlandgorilla at aol.com (lowlandgorilla@aol.com) Date: Fri May 2 09:50:21 2008 Subject: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny In-Reply-To: References: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF2@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> Message-ID: <8CA7A7AE4629119-DFC-4D2D@webmail-ne08.sysops.aol.com> Sexual solicitation (i.e. presenting, stance, staring, facial expressions) Rick -----Original Message----- From: Rebecca Richardson To: Rui Boliqueime Martins Diogo Cc: primate-science@primate.wisc.edu Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 7:07 am Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny quick question - how do gorillas "reveal" their ovulation, as opposed to idea of orantuans/humans having concealed ovulation? ? Rebecca Richardson Antioch New England-Environmental Studies PhD Program Tel: ????(678) 358-2833 _______________________________________________ Primate-Science mailing list Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080502/c1d65edc/attachment.html From sherrow at ohio.edu Fri May 2 10:26:39 2008 From: sherrow at ohio.edu (Hogan) Date: Fri May 2 10:27:18 2008 Subject: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny In-Reply-To: <8CA7A7AE4629119-DFC-4D2D@webmail-ne08.sysops.aol.com> References: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF2@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org > <8CA7A7AE4629119-DFC-4D2D@webmail-ne08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <23DC50AB3E8A838F00D646C2@dhcp-210-176.cns.ohiou.edu> Yes, gorilla females are not just REceptive, but are PROceptive during ovulation, as are orang, gibbon and human females. In fact of the living apes, it is really the chimp and bonobo who are different because females produce swellings and have an 'estrous' period during which they advertise their reproductive potential. Take care all. Hogan --On May 2, 2008 10:49:43 AM -0400 lowlandgorilla@aol.com wrote: > Sexual solicitation (i.e. presenting, stance, staring, facial expressions) > > Rick > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rebecca Richardson > To: Rui Boliqueime Martins Diogo > Cc: primate-science@primate.wisc.edu > Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 7:07 am > Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny > > > > quick question - how do gorillas "reveal" their ovulation, as opposed to > idea of orantuans/humans having concealed ovulation? > > Rebecca Richardson > > Antioch New England-Environmental Studies PhD Program > Tel: (678) 358-2833 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Primate-Science mailing list > Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu > http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science > > > > __________________________________________________ > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. Hogan M. Sherrow Ph.D. Candidate Dept of Anthropology Yale University Assistant Professor Dept of Sociology & Anthropology Ohio University Phone: (740) 597-2765 Fax: (740) 593-1365 From jgrehan at sciencebuff.org Fri May 2 11:07:16 2008 From: jgrehan at sciencebuff.org (John Grehan) Date: Fri May 2 11:07:28 2008 Subject: [PS] RE: Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny In-Reply-To: References: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF2@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> Message-ID: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF5@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> Rui, I may have mentioned on this list quite some time ago that we have done just that. A paper was submitted to the Journal of Biogeography early last year and we finally got a response back in October. Some major revisions were requested and we have been working on that since. My employment position does not allow a great deal of research time so that has delayed things. Hopefully in the next few weeks we will resubmit. I did not go for a paleoanthropology journal as I felt that one would be wading into much more opposition. In this post-cladistic world everything still rests on character validity so it is necessary to have (1) explicit documentation of characters and (2) explicit critiques. In the file of human origins documentation has been generally been abysmal (and the selective withholding of holotype access is disgusting) As a non-primate systematist I came into the field looking for documentation because I was not simply going to take Schwartz's word alone. I was going to test out the validity of his characters and also those supporting the chimpanzee theory. The result has been that I have found far more substantiated characters in support of orangutans than chimpanzees. I published on this in the New Anatomist. It was also quite a surprise for me to find that some systematists supporting the chimpanzee theory refused to provide me with the evidence to substantiate their characters (as they did not bother to publish that information). I will say that Colin Groves stands out as a major exception. He strongly supports the chimpanzee theory, but he has been willing to provide evidence in support of his proposed characters, and even in some cases retract them when I pointed out a problem with their validity. Colin has scientific integrity. So you can feel rest assured that the analysis has been done and will be resubmitted soon for publication. It's a long process. John ________________________________ From: Rui Boliqueime Martins Diogo [mailto:ruidiogo@gwu.edu] Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 9:37 AM To: John Grehan Cc: primate-science@primate.wisc.edu Subject: Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny Hi John, I consider your emails usually very interesting, and I was one of those who defended, some days ago, that we should continue to receive such emails. However, there is one thing that I do not completely understand: if you have all these ideas and characters, why don't you simply try to compile all the data available and do an explicit phylogenetic analysis? I do think that, if you do a fair compilation (including ALL the characters you can, even those that are only shared by humans and chimps, for instance) and an explicit cladistic analysis, and you obtain the results that you usually defend, that could have more impact on researchers. Because so far, after hundreds of emails and several papers, the only type of argumentation I heard is the "my characters are better than yours" type of argumentation that was done in precladistic times, when a researcher A says a certain character X shows that Y and Z are sister-groups, while other researcher says that not, that character W is more important than X. Why, after so much work, so many emails, and several publications, did you never tried/dare to do a proper, explicit cladistic analysis with all the data you have? Cheers, Rui --------------- Dr. Rui Diogo Center for the Advanced Study of Hominid Paleobiology Department of Anthropology The George Washington University 2110 G St. NW Washington, DC 20052, USA Email - ruidiogo@gwu.edu and Rui_Diogo@hotmail.com "THE ORIGIN OF HIGHER CLADES: OSTEOLOGY, MYOLOGY, PHYLOGENY AND EVOLUTION OF BONY FISHES AND THE RISE OF TETRAPODS" http://www.amazon.com/Origin-Higher-Clades-Osteology-Phylogeny/dp/157808 4377/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204230723&sr=8-1 or http://scipub.net/fisheries/origin-higher-clades.html ----- Original Message ----- From: John Grehan Date: Friday, May 2, 2008 9:15 am Subject: [PS] orang body fat To: primate-science@primate.wisc.edu > Thanks to everyone who responded. The balance of information seems to > indicate that there is nothing specifically unique about fat deposition > or obesity that is uniquely different for orangutans and humans. I dug > into the original reference from a correspondent who said "There are > features in orangutans such as concealed ovulation and fat storage that > they share with humans." So I wanted to check whether this similarity > in > fat storage was unique to orangutans and humans and since the > correspondent declined further response I was left a bit in the dark. > This same correspondent also said "Because this [the orangutan theory] > is such a minority opinion I am alarmed that you would present this as > an alternative theory [to the public] and would use it to guide your > reconstruction of Lucy since this theory has been rejected by the > anthropological community". In this response you can see how science > is > represented as what the majority of scientists believe rather than as > a > process of exploration. > > > > In reference to the concealed ovulation, if the outgroup comparison is > limited to lesser apes then concealed ovulation is uniquely shared by > humans and orangutans, but if the OW monkeys are included then the > feature is more problematic since the characteristics are not documented > for many species, and some do appear to also have concealed ovulation > (although this was once said for gibbons until closer examination). > > > > Primate biology is a vast subject which makes it very time consuming > to > explore character by character (especially when documentation is often > poor), so when obscure possibilities like the fat deposition arise, > input from a range of people on list such as this really can help a lot. > In the other direct I believe by raising questions of phylogenetic > meaning in otherwise seemingly obscure biological features I can draw > attention to primate biologists to the possibility that such features > may be really interesting and deserving of detailed documentation - > regardless of where one may stand on the theory of human origins. As > an > example, I think of the construction of roofs and sometimes walls in > orangutans. Despite the fact that this is a unique behavior for humans > and orangutans among primates it has never been documented in detail. > Similarity, the construction and cradling of leaf dolls has never been > described, yet it's potential significance is tremendous. > > > > John Grehan > > > > Dr. John R. Grehan > > Director of Science and Collections > > Buffalo Museum of Science1020 Humboldt Parkway > > Buffalo, NY 14211-1193 > > email: jgrehan@sciencebuff.org > > Phone: (716) 896-5200 ext 372 > > > > Panbiogeography > > > > Ghost moth research > > > > Human evolution and the great apes > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Primate-Science mailing list > Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080502/29a896c8/attachment.html From jgrehan at sciencebuff.org Fri May 2 11:14:32 2008 From: jgrehan at sciencebuff.org (John Grehan) Date: Fri May 2 11:14:48 2008 Subject: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny In-Reply-To: <23DC50AB3E8A838F00D646C2@dhcp-210-176.cns.ohiou.edu> References: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF2@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> <8CA7A7AE4629119-DFC-4D2D@webmail-ne08.sysops.aol.com> <23DC50AB3E8A838F00D646C2@dhcp-210-176.cns.ohiou.edu> Message-ID: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF7@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> It is not quite correct to say that only chimps and bonobo are different in producing ovulatory swelling. There is slight swelling in ovulating gorillas (see references in my Mona Lisa paper). Gorilla females may be proreceptive like other apes and humans, but so far only human and orangutan females are known to initiate copulatory mounting. John Grehan > -----Original Message----- > From: primate-science-bounces@primate.wisc.edu [mailto:primate-science- > bounces@primate.wisc.edu] On Behalf Of Hogan > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 11:27 AM > To: lowlandgorilla@aol.com; primate-science@primate.wisc.edu > Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny > > Yes, gorilla females are not just REceptive, but are PROceptive during > ovulation, as are orang, gibbon and human females. In fact of the living > apes, it is really the chimp and bonobo who are different because females > produce swellings and have an 'estrous' period during which they advertise > their reproductive potential. Take care all. > > Hogan > > --On May 2, 2008 10:49:43 AM -0400 lowlandgorilla@aol.com wrote: > > > Sexual solicitation (i.e. presenting, stance, staring, facial > expressions) > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rebecca Richardson > > To: Rui Boliqueime Martins Diogo > > Cc: primate-science@primate.wisc.edu > > Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 7:07 am > > Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny > > > > > > > > quick question - how do gorillas "reveal" their ovulation, as opposed to > > idea of orantuans/humans having concealed ovulation? > > > > Rebecca Richardson > > > > Antioch New England-Environmental Studies PhD Program > > Tel: (678) 358-2833 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Primate-Science mailing list > > Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu > > http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. > > > > Hogan M. Sherrow > Ph.D. Candidate > Dept of Anthropology > Yale University > Assistant Professor > Dept of Sociology & Anthropology > Ohio University > Phone: (740) 597-2765 > Fax: (740) 593-1365 > _______________________________________________ > Primate-Science mailing list > Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu > http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science From sherrow at ohio.edu Fri May 2 12:30:04 2008 From: sherrow at ohio.edu (Hogan) Date: Fri May 2 12:52:05 2008 Subject: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny In-Reply-To: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF7@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> References: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF2@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org > <8CA7A7AE4629119-DFC-4D2D@webmail-ne08.sysops.aol.com> <23DC50AB3E8A838F00D646C2@dhcp-210-176.cns.ohiou.edu> <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF7@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> Message-ID: <1681BF791CF243841DDF4881@dhcp-210-176.cns.ohiou.edu> OK, there are morphological changes which appear to happen in all female ape genitalia [and probably all female mammals for that matter] during fertile periods. However, my point was that female chimpanzees and bonobos are fundamentally different than the other apes by advertising their reproductive potential with overt sexual swellings, and that to label what happens in humans as concealed ovulation, indicating that they [and in John's opinion orangs] are different than the other apes in this regard is flawed terminology and logic. In regards to 'copulatory mounting', John, could you please explain that term a bit more? If you're referring to females initiating copulations, see Watts's paper from 1991 on mountain gorillas. If you're talking about something else, please fill me in. Thanks. Hogan --On May 2, 2008 12:14:32 PM -0400 John Grehan wrote: > It is not quite correct to say that only chimps and bonobo are different > in producing ovulatory swelling. There is slight swelling in ovulating > gorillas (see references in my Mona Lisa paper). > > Gorilla females may be proreceptive like other apes and humans, but so > far only human and orangutan females are known to initiate copulatory > mounting. > > John Grehan > > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: primate-science-bounces@primate.wisc.edu > [mailto:primate-science- >> bounces@primate.wisc.edu] On Behalf Of Hogan >> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 11:27 AM >> To: lowlandgorilla@aol.com; primate-science@primate.wisc.edu >> Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny >> >> Yes, gorilla females are not just REceptive, but are PROceptive during >> ovulation, as are orang, gibbon and human females. In fact of the > living >> apes, it is really the chimp and bonobo who are different because > females >> produce swellings and have an 'estrous' period during which they > advertise >> their reproductive potential. Take care all. >> >> Hogan >> >> --On May 2, 2008 10:49:43 AM -0400 lowlandgorilla@aol.com wrote: >> >> > Sexual solicitation (i.e. presenting, stance, staring, facial >> expressions) >> > >> > Rick >> > >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Rebecca Richardson >> > To: Rui Boliqueime Martins Diogo >> > Cc: primate-science@primate.wisc.edu >> > Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 7:07 am >> > Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny >> > >> > >> > >> > quick question - how do gorillas "reveal" their ovulation, as > opposed to >> > idea of orantuans/humans having concealed ovulation? >> > >> > Rebecca Richardson >> > >> > Antioch New England-Environmental Studies PhD Program >> > Tel: (678) 358-2833 >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Primate-Science mailing list >> > Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu >> > http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science >> > >> > >> > >> > __________________________________________________ >> > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping > Site. >> >> >> >> Hogan M. Sherrow >> Ph.D. Candidate >> Dept of Anthropology >> Yale University >> Assistant Professor >> Dept of Sociology & Anthropology >> Ohio University >> Phone: (740) 597-2765 >> Fax: (740) 593-1365 >> _______________________________________________ >> Primate-Science mailing list >> Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu >> http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science Hogan M. Sherrow Ph.D. Candidate Dept of Anthropology Yale University Assistant Professor Dept of Sociology & Anthropology Ohio University Phone: (740) 597-2765 Fax: (740) 593-1365 From jgrehan at sciencebuff.org Fri May 2 12:53:07 2008 From: jgrehan at sciencebuff.org (John Grehan) Date: Fri May 2 12:53:18 2008 Subject: [PS] RE: In-Reply-To: <2586A1048152BE4D861E64A98700AD42236A0C@nki-mail.NKI.rfmh.org> References: <2586A1048152BE4D861E64A98700AD42236A0C@nki-mail.NKI.rfmh.org> Message-ID: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBFA@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> I receive this off list comment so I will keep confidentiality but the question is of interest to others so I will respond to the list. > That may be true for apes but if you include monkeys then certainly > Cebus apella females initiate mounting (not just proceptive). I and > others have written much about this. This is definitely of interest to me and I will obtain the relevant publications. I did a lot of searching in my research but had not come across the example. I did note in the Mona Lisa paper that female chimpanzees will back onto an erect penis (whereas in the orangutans example the female physically manipulates the erection. Interesting that Cebus shows up in this way as they also show like great apes in some other behavioral ways such as the use of hammer anvil techniques. John Grehan From jgrehan at sciencebuff.org Fri May 2 13:06:54 2008 From: jgrehan at sciencebuff.org (John Grehan) Date: Fri May 2 13:07:05 2008 Subject: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny In-Reply-To: <1681BF791CF243841DDF4881@dhcp-210-176.cns.ohiou.edu> References: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF2@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> <8CA7A7AE4629119-DFC-4D2D@webmail-ne08.sysops.aol.com><23DC50AB3E8A838F00D646C2@dhcp-210-176.cns.ohiou.edu><26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF7@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> <1681BF791CF243841DDF4881@dhcp-210-176.cns.ohiou.edu> Message-ID: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBFC@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> Hogan, I do not understand what you mean by a flawed terminology and logic by my stating that humans do not undergo swelling and color changes in the genitalia during ovulation. Since all the other great apes and the lesser apes appear to undergoe some change during ovulation, humans and orangtuans are different in this respect. Yes female chimps and bonobos are different from all other living apes in having overt or developed swellings. But that does not change the fact that orangtuans and humans do not have any swelling correlated with ovultion. I am refering to females not only initiateing copulations, but also arousing the male by physical manipulation of the penis that makes such mounting possible. I do nto have access to Watts 1991 paper. I will put in a library interloan request, but if anyone has an electronic copy that could be sent to me I would be most grateful. John Grehan > -----Original Message----- > From: primate-science-bounces@primate.wisc.edu [mailto:primate-science- > bounces@primate.wisc.edu] On Behalf Of Hogan > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 1:30 PM > To: primate-science@primate.wisc.edu > Subject: RE: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny > > OK, there are morphological changes which appear to happen in all female > ape genitalia [and probably all female mammals for that matter] during > fertile periods. However, my point was that female chimpanzees and > bonobos > are fundamentally different than the other apes by advertising their > reproductive potential with overt sexual swellings, and that to label what > happens in humans as concealed ovulation, indicating that they [and in > John's opinion orangs] are different than the other apes in this regard is > flawed terminology and logic. > > In regards to 'copulatory mounting', John, could you please explain that > term a bit more? If you're referring to females initiating copulations, > see > Watts's paper from 1991 on mountain gorillas. If you're talking about > something else, please fill me in. Thanks. > > Hogan > > > > --On May 2, 2008 12:14:32 PM -0400 John Grehan > wrote: > > > It is not quite correct to say that only chimps and bonobo are different > > in producing ovulatory swelling. There is slight swelling in ovulating > > gorillas (see references in my Mona Lisa paper). > > > > Gorilla females may be proreceptive like other apes and humans, but so > > far only human and orangutan females are known to initiate copulatory > > mounting. > > > > John Grehan > > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: primate-science-bounces@primate.wisc.edu > > [mailto:primate-science- > >> bounces@primate.wisc.edu] On Behalf Of Hogan > >> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 11:27 AM > >> To: lowlandgorilla@aol.com; primate-science@primate.wisc.edu > >> Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny > >> > >> Yes, gorilla females are not just REceptive, but are PROceptive during > >> ovulation, as are orang, gibbon and human females. In fact of the > > living > >> apes, it is really the chimp and bonobo who are different because > > females > >> produce swellings and have an 'estrous' period during which they > > advertise > >> their reproductive potential. Take care all. > >> > >> Hogan > >> > >> --On May 2, 2008 10:49:43 AM -0400 lowlandgorilla@aol.com wrote: > >> > >> > Sexual solicitation (i.e. presenting, stance, staring, facial > >> expressions) > >> > > >> > Rick > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: Rebecca Richardson > >> > To: Rui Boliqueime Martins Diogo > >> > Cc: primate-science@primate.wisc.edu > >> > Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 7:07 am > >> > Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > quick question - how do gorillas "reveal" their ovulation, as > > opposed to > >> > idea of orantuans/humans having concealed ovulation? > >> > > >> > Rebecca Richardson > >> > > >> > Antioch New England-Environmental Studies PhD Program > >> > Tel: (678) 358-2833 > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Primate-Science mailing list > >> > Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu > >> > http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > __________________________________________________ > >> > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping > > Site. > >> > >> > >> > >> Hogan M. Sherrow > >> Ph.D. Candidate > >> Dept of Anthropology > >> Yale University > >> Assistant Professor > >> Dept of Sociology & Anthropology > >> Ohio University > >> Phone: (740) 597-2765 > >> Fax: (740) 593-1365 > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Primate-Science mailing list > >> Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu > >> http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science > > > > Hogan M. Sherrow > Ph.D. Candidate > Dept of Anthropology > Yale University > Assistant Professor > Dept of Sociology & Anthropology > Ohio University > Phone: (740) 597-2765 > Fax: (740) 593-1365 > _______________________________________________ > Primate-Science mailing list > Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu > http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science From watsonl at gis.net Fri May 2 13:46:09 2008 From: watsonl at gis.net (Dr Lyna Watson) Date: Fri May 2 13:46:27 2008 Subject: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny In-Reply-To: References: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF2@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> Message-ID: <481B6171.90803@gis.net> Hello All: I have found the discussion on overt cues vs. concealed ovulation in lowland gorillas fascinating. I wrote a paper which was published in 1984 in Zoo Biology V3(4):285-306 entitled "Hormone levels and overt social behaviors including signed output in a captive gorilla". Briefly, with just one subject, Koko, I found that there were statistical differences in food and water intake, locations near/far to humans vs near/far to conspecific male (Michael), presenting to Michael vs. ignoring him at other times, aggressive levels increase or decrease, odor changes, topic or subject changes in language output or who instigated the conversation, postural changes, etc throughout the cylces. With the support and help of Don Lindberg at San Diego Zoo, among others, I was able to acquire radioimmunoassays on urine samples for six month period to score estrogen levels. I also noticed, with no direct measurements, slight swellings in ischial areas during times of receptivity. The visual cues are difficult to detect in this species, but because I knew the animal so well, I noticed behavioral changes over time and this is what triggered my interest in wanting to conduct such a study. It was the basis for my master's and my first publication....thanks to Terry Maple for his encouragement. Maybe this simple study would be helpful to others in identifying some slight, ofter over-looked behavioral changes in their captive gorillas. Regards, Dr. Lyna Watson Rebecca Richardson wrote: > quick question - how do gorillas "reveal" their ovulation, as opposed > to idea of orantuans/humans having concealed ovulation? > > Rebecca Richardson > > Antioch New England-Environmental Studies PhD Program > Tel: (678) 358-2833 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Primate-Science mailing list > Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu > http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080502/c887c4e3/attachment.html From lowlandgorilla at aol.com Fri May 2 14:09:49 2008 From: lowlandgorilla at aol.com (lowlandgorilla@aol.com) Date: Fri May 2 14:10:14 2008 Subject: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny In-Reply-To: <481B6171.90803@gis.net> References: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF2@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> <481B6171.90803@gis.net> Message-ID: <8CA7A9F39D112E8-13C0-606F@webmail-ne05.sysops.aol.com> Hi Dr. Watson, Taking a different view of this subject and the subject you studied, that same gorilla would sexually solicit me where she would not solicit the male. She actually solicited me with the male seven feet behind where I was kneeling. That is the sad result of a 'humanized' gorilla. Thank you for sharing your findings. Rick Murphy -----Original Message----- From: Dr Lyna Watson To: Rebecca Richardson Cc: primate-science@primate.wisc.edu Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 11:46 am Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny Hello All: I have found the discussion on overt cues vs. concealed ovulation in lowland gorillas fascinating.? I wrote a paper which was published in 1984 in Zoo Biology V3(4):285-306 entitled "Hormone levels and overt social behaviors including signed output in a captive gorilla".? Briefly, with just one subject, Koko, I found that there were statistical differences in food and water intake, locations near/far to humans vs near/far to conspecific male (Michael), presenting to Michael vs. ignoring him at other times, aggressive levels increase or decrease, odor changes, topic or subject changes in language output or who instigated the conversation, postural changes, etc throughout the cylces.? With the support and help of Don Lindberg at San Diego Zoo, among others, I was able to acquire radioimmunoassays on urine samples for six month period to score estrogen levels.? I also noticed, with no direct measurements, slight swellings in ischial areas during times of receptivity.? The visua! l cues are difficult to detect in this species, but because I knew the animal so well, I noticed behavioral changes over time and this is what triggered my interest in wanting to conduct such a study. It was the basis for my master's and my first publication....thanks to Terry Maple for his encouragement. Maybe this simple study would be helpful to others in identifying some slight, ofter over-looked behavioral changes in their captive gorillas. Regards, Dr. Lyna Watson Rebecca Richardson wrote: quick question - how do gorillas "reveal" their ovulation, as opposed to idea of orantuans/humans having concealed ovulation? ? Rebecca Richardson Antioch New England-Environmental Studies PhD Program Tel: ????(678) 358-2833 _______________________________________________ Primate-Science mailing list Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science _______________________________________________ Primate-Science mailing list Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080502/519efc5d/attachment-0001.html From sherrow at ohio.edu Fri May 2 14:19:32 2008 From: sherrow at ohio.edu (Hogan) Date: Fri May 2 14:20:19 2008 Subject: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny In-Reply-To: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBFC@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> References: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF2@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org > <8CA7A7AE4629119-DFC-4D2D@webmail-ne08.sysops.aol.com> <23DC50AB3E8A838F00D646C2@dhcp-210-176.cns.ohiou.edu> <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF7@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> <1681BF791CF243841DDF4881@dhcp-210-176.cns.ohiou.edu> <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBFC@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> Message-ID: What I actually said was, "...to label what happens in humans as concealed ovulation, indicating that they [and in John's opinion orangs] are different than the other apes in this regard is flawed terminology and logic." This really has to do with a long tradition of labeling human females as having 'concealed ovulation'. My basis for calling this flawed terminology and logic are: 1) Human females undergo morphological and physiological changes during periovulation and ovulation that do nothing to conceal their ovulation. They do not advertise their reproductive potential in the same way that chimpanzees and bonobos do, but neither do gibbons, gorillas or orangutans. Additionally, there are data that suggest that behavior ranging from flirting to proceptivity to the way young women dress [Haselton et al, 2007] correlates with their ovulatory stage. In this way human females are very much like other ape females, other than chimpanzees and bonobos. 2) The flawed logic [in my opinion] stems from seeing 'concealed ovulation' in humans as an apomorphy, and this alleged state in humans and any other species as a synapomorphy. John, if you have a reference for a wild female orang manually arousing a male before a copulation I would be very interested in getting a link. Finally, I think this has been an interesting discussion, but I must get back to boring things like analyses of dominance data. Take care. Hogan --On May 2, 2008 2:06:54 PM -0400 John Grehan wrote: > > Hogan, > > I do not understand what you mean by a flawed terminology and logic by > my stating that humans do not undergo swelling and color changes in the > genitalia during ovulation. Since all the other great apes and the > lesser apes appear to undergoe some change during ovulation, humans and > orangtuans are different in this respect. Yes female chimps and bonobos > are different from all other living apes in having overt or developed > swellings. But that does not change the fact that orangtuans and humans > do not have any swelling correlated with ovultion. > > I am refering to females not only initiateing copulations, but also > arousing the male by physical manipulation of the penis that makes such > mounting possible. > > I do nto have access to Watts 1991 paper. I will put in a library > interloan request, but if anyone has an electronic copy that could be > sent to me I would be most grateful. > > John Grehan > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: primate-science-bounces@primate.wisc.edu > [mailto:primate-science- >> bounces@primate.wisc.edu] On Behalf Of Hogan >> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 1:30 PM >> To: primate-science@primate.wisc.edu >> Subject: RE: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny >> >> OK, there are morphological changes which appear to happen in all > female >> ape genitalia [and probably all female mammals for that matter] during >> fertile periods. However, my point was that female chimpanzees and >> bonobos >> are fundamentally different than the other apes by advertising their >> reproductive potential with overt sexual swellings, and that to label > what >> happens in humans as concealed ovulation, indicating that they [and in >> John's opinion orangs] are different than the other apes in this > regard is >> flawed terminology and logic. >> >> In regards to 'copulatory mounting', John, could you please explain > that >> term a bit more? If you're referring to females initiating > copulations, >> see >> Watts's paper from 1991 on mountain gorillas. If you're talking about >> something else, please fill me in. Thanks. >> >> Hogan >> >> >> >> --On May 2, 2008 12:14:32 PM -0400 John Grehan > >> wrote: >> >> > It is not quite correct to say that only chimps and bonobo are > different >> > in producing ovulatory swelling. There is slight swelling in > ovulating >> > gorillas (see references in my Mona Lisa paper). >> > >> > Gorilla females may be proreceptive like other apes and humans, but > so >> > far only human and orangutan females are known to initiate > copulatory >> > mounting. >> > >> > John Grehan >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: primate-science-bounces@primate.wisc.edu >> > [mailto:primate-science- >> >> bounces@primate.wisc.edu] On Behalf Of Hogan >> >> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 11:27 AM >> >> To: lowlandgorilla@aol.com; primate-science@primate.wisc.edu >> >> Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny >> >> >> >> Yes, gorilla females are not just REceptive, but are PROceptive > during >> >> ovulation, as are orang, gibbon and human females. In fact of the >> > living >> >> apes, it is really the chimp and bonobo who are different because >> > females >> >> produce swellings and have an 'estrous' period during which they >> > advertise >> >> their reproductive potential. Take care all. >> >> >> >> Hogan >> >> >> >> --On May 2, 2008 10:49:43 AM -0400 lowlandgorilla@aol.com wrote: >> >> >> >> > Sexual solicitation (i.e. presenting, stance, staring, facial >> >> expressions) >> >> > >> >> > Rick >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> >> > From: Rebecca Richardson >> >> > To: Rui Boliqueime Martins Diogo >> >> > Cc: primate-science@primate.wisc.edu >> >> > Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 7:07 am >> >> > Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > quick question - how do gorillas "reveal" their ovulation, as >> > opposed to >> >> > idea of orantuans/humans having concealed ovulation? >> >> > >> >> > Rebecca Richardson >> >> > >> >> > Antioch New England-Environmental Studies PhD Program >> >> > Tel: (678) 358-2833 >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > Primate-Science mailing list >> >> > Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu >> >> > http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > __________________________________________________ >> >> > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping >> > Site. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hogan M. Sherrow >> >> Ph.D. Candidate >> >> Dept of Anthropology >> >> Yale University >> >> Assistant Professor >> >> Dept of Sociology & Anthropology >> >> Ohio University >> >> Phone: (740) 597-2765 >> >> Fax: (740) 593-1365 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Primate-Science mailing list >> >> Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu >> >> http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science >> >> >> >> Hogan M. Sherrow >> Ph.D. Candidate >> Dept of Anthropology >> Yale University >> Assistant Professor >> Dept of Sociology & Anthropology >> Ohio University >> Phone: (740) 597-2765 >> Fax: (740) 593-1365 >> _______________________________________________ >> Primate-Science mailing list >> Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu >> http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science Hogan M. Sherrow Ph.D. Candidate Dept of Anthropology Yale University Assistant Professor Dept of Sociology & Anthropology Ohio University Phone: (740) 597-2765 Fax: (740) 593-1365 From jgrehan at sciencebuff.org Fri May 2 14:40:05 2008 From: jgrehan at sciencebuff.org (John Grehan) Date: Fri May 2 14:40:36 2008 Subject: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny In-Reply-To: References: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF2@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org > <8CA7A7AE4629119-DFC-4D2D@webmail-ne08.sysops.aol.com> <23DC50AB3E8A838F00D646C2@dhcp-210-176.cns.ohiou.edu> <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF7@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> <1681BF791CF243841DDF4881@dhcp-210-176.cns.ohiou.edu> <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBFC@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> Message-ID: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BC00@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> Hogan, Thanks for the clarification. I have seen others mention that 'concealed ovulation' may be too much a simplistic or misleading term for humans. 1. Agreed that humans do not undergo promient swelling and color change like chimps and bonobos, but neither do they undergo the swelling-color changes like lesser apes and gorillas and in this repsect humans and orangutans are different from the other apes. 2. Strictly speaking the lack of morpholgoical change (if not 'concealed ovlution' then any other term is fine) is not a definitive aporphy because of the prevalence of the condition in monkeys. In morphological congruence the feature does correlate with the largest set of apomorphies shared between humans and other apes, and in this respect it would be identified as an a corroborated synapomorphy (that evolved in the common ancestor of orangtuans and humans separtely from its origin in some monkey genera). If, however, one choses the molecular relationship then 'concealed ovlution' would have to be treated either as a sympelsiomorphy (perhaps unlikely as it would require swelling to evolve and then be lost again) or a convergence). Arousal of males is cited and referenced on p 144 of the Mona lisa paper which can be downloaded at http://www.sciencebuff.org/ftp_only/mona_lisa_smile_2006.pdf I wish I had known about this list when I was writing the Mona Lisa paper. It would have added immensly to the detail and perhaps accuracy of that publication. John Grehan > -----Original Message----- > From: Hogan [mailto:sherrow@ohio.edu] > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 3:20 PM > To: John Grehan; primate-science@primate.wisc.edu > Subject: RE: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny > > What I actually said was, "...to label what happens in humans as concealed > ovulation, indicating that they [and in John's opinion orangs] are > different than the other apes in this regard is flawed terminology and > logic." This really has to do with a long tradition of labeling human > females as having 'concealed ovulation'. My basis for calling this flawed > terminology and logic are: > > 1) Human females undergo morphological and physiological changes during > periovulation and ovulation that do nothing to conceal their ovulation. > They do not advertise their reproductive potential in the same way that > chimpanzees and bonobos do, but neither do gibbons, gorillas or > orangutans. > Additionally, there are data that suggest that behavior ranging from > flirting to proceptivity to the way young women dress [Haselton et al, > 2007] correlates with their ovulatory stage. In this way human females > are > very much like other ape females, other than chimpanzees and bonobos. > > 2) The flawed logic [in my opinion] stems from seeing 'concealed > ovulation' > in humans as an apomorphy, and this alleged state in humans and any other > species as a synapomorphy. > > John, if you have a reference for a wild female orang manually arousing a > male before a copulation I would be very interested in getting a link. > > Finally, I think this has been an interesting discussion, but I must get > back to boring things like analyses of dominance data. Take care. > > Hogan > > --On May 2, 2008 2:06:54 PM -0400 John Grehan > wrote: > > > > > Hogan, > > > > I do not understand what you mean by a flawed terminology and logic by > > my stating that humans do not undergo swelling and color changes in the > > genitalia during ovulation. Since all the other great apes and the > > lesser apes appear to undergoe some change during ovulation, humans and > > orangtuans are different in this respect. Yes female chimps and bonobos > > are different from all other living apes in having overt or developed > > swellings. But that does not change the fact that orangtuans and humans > > do not have any swelling correlated with ovultion. > > > > I am refering to females not only initiateing copulations, but also > > arousing the male by physical manipulation of the penis that makes such > > mounting possible. > > > > I do nto have access to Watts 1991 paper. I will put in a library > > interloan request, but if anyone has an electronic copy that could be > > sent to me I would be most grateful. > > > > John Grehan > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: primate-science-bounces@primate.wisc.edu > > [mailto:primate-science- > >> bounces@primate.wisc.edu] On Behalf Of Hogan > >> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 1:30 PM > >> To: primate-science@primate.wisc.edu > >> Subject: RE: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny > >> > >> OK, there are morphological changes which appear to happen in all > > female > >> ape genitalia [and probably all female mammals for that matter] during > >> fertile periods. However, my point was that female chimpanzees and > >> bonobos > >> are fundamentally different than the other apes by advertising their > >> reproductive potential with overt sexual swellings, and that to label > > what > >> happens in humans as concealed ovulation, indicating that they [and in > >> John's opinion orangs] are different than the other apes in this > > regard is > >> flawed terminology and logic. > >> > >> In regards to 'copulatory mounting', John, could you please explain > > that > >> term a bit more? If you're referring to females initiating > > copulations, > >> see > >> Watts's paper from 1991 on mountain gorillas. If you're talking about > >> something else, please fill me in. Thanks. > >> > >> Hogan > >> > >> > >> > >> --On May 2, 2008 12:14:32 PM -0400 John Grehan > > > >> wrote: > >> > >> > It is not quite correct to say that only chimps and bonobo are > > different > >> > in producing ovulatory swelling. There is slight swelling in > > ovulating > >> > gorillas (see references in my Mona Lisa paper). > >> > > >> > Gorilla females may be proreceptive like other apes and humans, but > > so > >> > far only human and orangutan females are known to initiate > > copulatory > >> > mounting. > >> > > >> > John Grehan > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: primate-science-bounces@primate.wisc.edu > >> > [mailto:primate-science- > >> >> bounces@primate.wisc.edu] On Behalf Of Hogan > >> >> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 11:27 AM > >> >> To: lowlandgorilla@aol.com; primate-science@primate.wisc.edu > >> >> Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny > >> >> > >> >> Yes, gorilla females are not just REceptive, but are PROceptive > > during > >> >> ovulation, as are orang, gibbon and human females. In fact of the > >> > living > >> >> apes, it is really the chimp and bonobo who are different because > >> > females > >> >> produce swellings and have an 'estrous' period during which they > >> > advertise > >> >> their reproductive potential. Take care all. > >> >> > >> >> Hogan > >> >> > >> >> --On May 2, 2008 10:49:43 AM -0400 lowlandgorilla@aol.com wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > Sexual solicitation (i.e. presenting, stance, staring, facial > >> >> expressions) > >> >> > > >> >> > Rick > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > -----Original Message----- > >> >> > From: Rebecca Richardson > >> >> > To: Rui Boliqueime Martins Diogo > >> >> > Cc: primate-science@primate.wisc.edu > >> >> > Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 7:07 am > >> >> > Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > quick question - how do gorillas "reveal" their ovulation, as > >> > opposed to > >> >> > idea of orantuans/humans having concealed ovulation? > >> >> > > >> >> > Rebecca Richardson > >> >> > > >> >> > Antioch New England-Environmental Studies PhD Program > >> >> > Tel: (678) 358-2833 > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> > Primate-Science mailing list > >> >> > Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu > >> >> > http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > __________________________________________________ > >> >> > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping > >> > Site. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Hogan M. Sherrow > >> >> Ph.D. Candidate > >> >> Dept of Anthropology > >> >> Yale University > >> >> Assistant Professor > >> >> Dept of Sociology & Anthropology > >> >> Ohio University > >> >> Phone: (740) 597-2765 > >> >> Fax: (740) 593-1365 > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> Primate-Science mailing list > >> >> Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu > >> >> http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science > >> > >> > >> > >> Hogan M. Sherrow > >> Ph.D. Candidate > >> Dept of Anthropology > >> Yale University > >> Assistant Professor > >> Dept of Sociology & Anthropology > >> Ohio University > >> Phone: (740) 597-2765 > >> Fax: (740) 593-1365 > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Primate-Science mailing list > >> Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu > >> http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science > > > > Hogan M. Sherrow > Ph.D. Candidate > Dept of Anthropology > Yale University > Assistant Professor > Dept of Sociology & Anthropology > Ohio University > Phone: (740) 597-2765 > Fax: (740) 593-1365 From hamel at primate.wisc.edu Sat May 3 09:00:02 2008 From: hamel at primate.wisc.edu (Ray Hamel) Date: Sat May 3 09:00:20 2008 Subject: [PS] Upcoming Primate Meetings Message-ID: <200805031400.m43E02X9021611@white.primate.wisc.edu> Upcoming events from the Primate Info Net Meetings Calendar http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/news/calendar If you have an event you would like to list here, please contact Ray Hamel at hamel@primate.wisc.edu. DECADE OF THE MIND III: EMERGENCE OF MIND Dates: May 7, 2008 - May 9, 2008 Sponsor: Great Ape Trust of Iowa Location: Des Moines Art Center, 4700 Grand Avenue, Des Moines, Iowa Web Site: www.greatapetrust.org/decadeofthemind/ ENRICHMENT EXTRAVAGANZA Date: May 8, 2008 Sponsor: NJABR and Merck & Co. Location: Best Western Palace Hotel in Fords, New Jersey 7TH ANNUAL CALLITRICHID BEHAVIORAL HUSBANDRY AND MANAGEMENT Dates: May 17, 2008 - May 18, 2008 Sponsor: Hosted by the Los Angeles Zoo and Botanical Gardens, Los Angeles, CA Location: Los Angeles, CA MEASURING ZOO ANIMAL WELFARE: COMBINING APPROACHES AND OVERCOMING CHALLENGES Dates: May 28, 2008 - May 29, 2008 Sponsor: Chicago Zoological Society Location: Brookfield Zoo, 3300 Gold Road, Brookfield, IL Web Site: http://www.brookfieldzoo.org/AWsymposium 31ST MEETING OF THE AMERICAN SOCIETY OF PRIMATOLOGISTS Dates: June 18, 2008 - June 21, 2008 Sponsor: American Society of Primatologists Location: West Palm Beach, Florida Web Site: http://www.asp.org/asp2008/index.htm REGIONAL ENVIRONMENTAL ENRICHMENT CONFERENCES: IPS 2008 PRE-TRAINING WORKSHOP Dates: July 30, 2008 - August 3, 2008 Sponsor: Regional Environmental Enrichment Conferences Location: Edinburgh Zoo, Edinburgh, Scotland Web Site: http://www.reec.info/IPS2008.htm WORKSHOP: COLLECTION AND ANALYSIS OF FIELD DATA FOR ESTIMATION OF PRIMATE DENSITY OR ABUNDANCE Dates: July 30, 2008 - August 1, 2008 Sponsor: University of St. Andrews Location: University of St. Andrews Web Site: http://www.creem.st-and.ac.uk/ocs/index.php/primates/primates08. XXIIND IPS CONGRESS Dates: August 3, 2008 - August 8, 2008 Sponsor: Primate Society of Great Britain Location: Edinburgh International Conference Centre in Edinburgh, Scotland Web Site: http://www.ips2008.co.uk/index.html ANNUAL MEETING OF THE ANIMAL BEHAVIOR SOCIETY Dates: August 14, 2008 - August 19, 2008 Sponsor: Animal Behavior Society Location: Snowbird, Colorado Web Site: http://abs.animalbehavior.org/ MEASURING BEHAVIOR 2008: 6TH INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON METHODS AND TECHNIQUES IN BEHAVIORAL RESEARCH Dates: August 26, 2008 - August 29, 2008 Sponsor: Noldus Location: Maastricht, The Netherlands Web Site: http://www.noldus.webaxxs.net/mb2008/ WORLD STEM CELL SUMMIT Dates: September 22, 2008 - September 23, 2008 Sponsor: University of Wisconsin-Madison Location: Alliant Energy Center, Madison, WI Web Site: www.stemcells.wisc.edu 2008 AAZK NATIONAL CONFERENCE Dates: September 24, 2008 - September 28, 2008 Sponsor: American Association of Zoo Keepers Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Web Site: http://www.utahaazk.org/national.htm ASSOCIATION OF PRIMATE VETERINARIANS Dates: November 5, 2008 - November 8, 2008 Sponsor: Association of Primate Veterinarians Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Web Site: http://www.primatevets.org/ 59TH AALAS NATIONAL MEETING Dates: November 9, 2008 - November 13, 2008 Sponsor: AALAS Location: Indianapolis, Indiana SCIENTISTS CENTER FOR ANIMAL WELFARE (SCAW) WINTER CONFERENCE Dates: December 1, 2008 - December 2, 2008 Sponsor: Scientists Center for Animal Welfare (SCAW) Location: San Antonio, TX Web Site: http://www.scaw.com/conference.htm THE 26TH ANNUAL SYMPOSIUM FOR NONHUMAN PRIMATE MODELS FOR AIDS Dates: December 9, 2008 - December 12, 2008 Sponsor: Wisconsin National Primate Research Center and Caribbean Primate Research Center Location: The Ritz-Carlton, San Juan Hotel, San Juan, Puerto Rico Web Site: http://nhp2008.primate.wisc.edu ------ Meetings Calendar on the web: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/news/calendar ------ From brown at primate.wisc.edu Sun May 4 09:00:07 2008 From: brown at primate.wisc.edu (Joanne Brown) Date: Sun May 4 09:00:38 2008 Subject: [PS] New books at the Jacobsen Primate Library -- April 2008 Message-ID: <200805041400.m44E07c4002296@white.primate.wisc.edu> The following acquisitions have been processed in the Wisconsin Primate Library in the past month. If you are looking for information about acquiring any of the titles, feel free to contact me directly and I'll help you if I can. If you are interested in borrowing any of these titles, please contact your local library (whether public, private, or part of an educational institution) to request the item through interlibrary loan. Please do not contact me directly about borrowing items from this library unless you have no other source. Thank you! To view acquisitions from previous months, please see: http://library.primate.wisc.edu/collections/newbooks.php --Books Added April 2008-- Bearzi, Maddalena; Stanford, Craig B. Beautiful minds: the parallel lives of great apes and dolphins. Harvard University Press, 2008. ISBN 0674027817. Bharati, Saroja; Lev, Maurice; Kirklin, John W. Cardiac surgery and the conduction system, 2nd rev. ed. Futura Publishing Co., 1992. ISBN 0879935227. Brenner, Barry M., ed. Brenner & Rector's The Kidney, 6th ed. W.B. Saunders, 2000. ISBN 0721679986. Bunting, Kevin D., ed. Hematopoietic stem cell protocols, 2nd ed. Humana Press, 2008. ISBN 9781588298683. Burger, Albert, ed.; Davidson, Duncan, ed.; Baldock, Richard, ed. Anatomy ontologies for bioinformatics: principles and practice. Springer, 2008. ISBN 9781846288845. Butynski, Thomas M., ed.; McCullough, Jennifer, ed. A rapid biological assessment of Lokutu, Democratic Republic of Congo. Conservation International, 2007. ISBN 9781934151044. http://science.conservation.org/portal/server.pt?open=18&objID=111240&parentname=CommunityPage&parentid=2&mode=2&in_hi_userid=124186&cached=true Committee on Recognition and Alleviation of Distress in Laboratory Animals. Recognition and alleviation of distress in laboratory animals. The Committee, National Research Council, 2007. ISBN 0309108179. European Association of Zoos and Aquaria. Proceedings of the EAZA Conference 2004. EAZA, 2004. European Association of Zoos and Aquaria. Proceedings of the EAZA Conference 2005. EAZA, 2005. Furuichi, Takeshi, ed.; Thompson, Jo, ed. The bonobos: behavior, ecology and conservation. Springer, 2008. ISBN 9780387747859. Hoke, Peter, ed.; Demey, Ron, ed.; Peal, Alex, ed. A rapid biological assessment of North Lorma, Gola and Grebo National Forests, Liberia. Conservation International, 2007. http://science.conservation.org/portal/server.pt?open=18&objID=105579&parentname=CommunityPage&parentid=2&mode=2&in_hi_userid=124186&cached=true Hopkins, William D., ed. The evolution of hemispheric specialization in primates. Academic Press/Elsevier, 2007. ISBN 9780123741974. Hou, Steven X., ed.; Singh, Shree Ram, ed. Germline stem cells. Humana Press, 2008. ISBN 9781603272131. Korb, Judith, ed.; Heinze, Jurgen, ed. Ecology of social evolution. Springer, 2008. ISBN 9783540759560. Nieuwenhuys, Rudolf; Voogd, Jan; Huijzen, Christiaan van. The human central nervous system, 4th ed. Springer, 2008. ISBN 9783540346845. Pearce, John M. Animal learning and cognition, 3rd ed. Psychology Press, 2008. ISBN 9781841696553. Picq, Pascal. Nouvelle histoire de l'homme. Perrin, 2007. ISBN 9782262026639. Picq, Pascal. Les origines de l'homme: l'odysee de l'espece. Tallandier, 2005. ISBN 2020660563. Poindron, Philippe, ed.; Piguet, Pascale, ed. New animal models of human neurological disorders. Karger, 2008. ISBN 3805584059. Prockop, Darwin J., ed; Phinney, Donald G., ed.; Bunnell, Bruce A., ed. Mesenchymal stem cells: methods and protocols. Springer, 2008. ISBN 9781588297716. Pruetz, Jill. The socioecology of adult female patas monkeys and vervets in Kenya. Pearson Prentice Hall, 2009. ISBN 0131927876. Reinhardt, Viktor. Taking better care of monkeys and apes: refinement of housing and handling practices for caged nonhuman primates. Animal Welfare Institute, 2008. ISBN 0938414968. http://www.awionline.org/pubs/PRIMATES/prim-refine.html Schuster, Gerd; Smits, Willie; Ullal, Jay. Thinkers of the jungle: the orangutan report. h. f. ullmann, 2008. ISBN 9783833146237. Science, evolution and creationism. National Academy of Sciences, Institute of Medicine, 2008. ISBN 0309105862. Seref, Onur, ed.; Kundakcioglu, O. Erhun, ed.; Pardalos, Panos M., ed. Data mining, systems analysis, and optimization in biomedicine. American Institute of Physics, 2007. ISBN 9780735404670. Stanford, Craig B.; Allen, John S.; Anton, Susan C. Biological anthropology, 2nd ed. Pearson Prentice Hall, 2009. ISBN 9780136011606. Volff, Jean-Nicolas, ed. Gene and protein evolution. Karger, 2007. ISBN 9783805583404. Wright, Heather E., ... [et al.], eds. A rapid biological assessment of three classified forests in southeastern Guinea. Conservation International, 2006. ISBN 1881173488. http://science.conservation.org/portal/server.pt?open=18&objID=126906&parentname=CommunityPage&parentid=2&mode=2&in_hi_userid=124186&cached=true Wright, Heather E., ed.; McCullough, Jennifer, ed.; Diallo, Mamadou Saliou, ed. A rapid biological assessment of Boke Prefecture, northwestern Guinea. Conservation International, 2006. ISBN 188117378X. http://science.conservation.org/portal/server.pt?open=18&objID=93831&parentname=CommunityPage&parentid=2&mode=2&in_hi_userid=124186&cached=true ------ New Books list on the web: http://library.primate.wisc.edu/collections/newbooks.php New Books list via RSS feed: http://library.primate.wisc.edu/rss/books.xml ------ -- Joanne Brown, Technical Services Librarian Jacobsen Library and Information Service Wisconsin National Primate Research Center 1220 Capitol Ct. Madison, WI 53715-1237 Phone: 608-263-3512 Fax: 608-265-2067 Email: brown@primate.wisc.edu From Ren.Behringer at gmx.de Mon May 5 09:19:40 2008 From: Ren.Behringer at gmx.de (Verena Behringer) Date: Mon May 5 09:20:32 2008 Subject: [PS] post to this list Message-ID: <20080505141940.16960@gmx.net> Welcome to the Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu mailing list! Please save this message for future reference. Thank you. 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Neu: Asterix bei den Olympischen Spielen: http://flat.games.gmx.de From hamel at primate.wisc.edu Tue May 6 00:00:03 2008 From: hamel at primate.wisc.edu (Ray Hamel) Date: Tue May 6 00:00:19 2008 Subject: [PS] Recent Primate-Jobs postings Message-ID: <200805060500.m46503AJ028167@white.primate.wisc.edu> The following listings were recently posted on Primate-Jobs http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs --POSITIONS AVAILABLE-- Field Assistant/Volunteer, Stony Brook University Doctoral Student http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs/listings/1196 Research technician, University of Chicago http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs/listings/1192 Research Technician, HHMI/Stanford University http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs/listings/1194 Chimpanzee Volunteer, Stichting Aap Chimpanzee Department http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs/listings/1195 --POSITIONS WANTED-- Great apes and or lesser apes http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs/listings/1193 Chimpanzees culture http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs/listings/1191 ------ Primate-Jobs on the web: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs Primate-Jobs via RSS feed: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/rss/jobs.xml Primate-Jobs is maintained by the Lawrence Jacobsen (WPRC) Library at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. WPRC programs are supported by grant numbers RR000167 and RR015311, National Primate Centers Program, National Center for Research Resources, the National Institutes of Health. Note that the responsibility for conforming to local, state, regional and national employment listing regulations lies with the listing organization. The Wisconsin Primate Research Center, the University of Wisconsin, and the National Center for Research Resources (National Institutes of Health), will not be held liable for misinformation in, or consequences resulting from, postings to Primate-Jobs. Inclusion of a job listing does not imply endorsement of the listing organization. ------ From dprocto at emory.edu Tue May 6 09:50:57 2008 From: dprocto at emory.edu (Darby Proctor) Date: Tue May 6 09:51:11 2008 Subject: [PS] Upcoming Workshop: The Primate Mind Message-ID: <407db4300805060750v31767d6bubb9587dcf11a16f9@mail.gmail.com> Workshop: "The Primate Mind: Built to Connect with Other Minds." A high-level international meeting of cognitive ethologists, behavioral biologists, and neuroscientists that will address how the primate (including human) mind relates to other minds through empathy, imitation, and other social cognition. Directors: Frans B. M. de Waal (Emory University) and Pier Francesco Ferrari (Universit? di Parma). Hosted by: Ettore Majorana Foundation and the International School of Ethology. Main speakers include Drs. Aureli, Bard, Baron-Cohen, de Waal, Ferrari, Hare, Hopkins, Huber, Iacoboni, Iriki, Matsuzawa, Menzel, Parr, Santos, Singer, Visalberghi, and Whiten. The workshop will be open for pre-registration by scientists and students, who may contribute oral and poster presentations. It will be held in Erice (Sicily), Italy, from June 4-7, 2009. Further details: www.emory.edu/LIVING_LINKS/primate_mind/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080506/2bbb0953/attachment.html From hamel at primate.wisc.edu Tue May 6 09:56:43 2008 From: hamel at primate.wisc.edu (Raymond Hamel) Date: Tue May 6 09:58:45 2008 Subject: [PS] Upcoming Workshop: The Primate Mind Message-ID: <014201c8af89$65e361c0$7b00a8c0@NIKKO> Workshop: "The Primate Mind: Built to Connect with Other Minds." A high-level international meeting of cognitive ethologists, behavioral biologists, and neuroscientists that will address how the primate (including human) mind relates to other minds through empathy, imitation, and other social cognition. Directors: Frans B. M. de Waal (Emory University) and Pier Francesco Ferrari (Universit? di Parma). Hosted by: Ettore Majorana Foundation and the International School of Ethology. Main speakers include Drs. Aureli, Bard, Baron-Cohen, de Waal, Ferrari, Hare, Hopkins, Huber, Iacoboni, Iriki, Matsuzawa, Menzel, Parr, Santos, Singer, Visalberghi, and Whiten. The workshop will be open for pre-registration by scientists and students, who may contribute oral and poster presentations. It will be held in Erice (Sicily), Italy, from June 4-7, 2009. Further details: www.emory.edu/LIVING_LINKS/primate_mind/ From hamel at primate.wisc.edu Tue May 6 14:00:02 2008 From: hamel at primate.wisc.edu (Ray Hamel) Date: Tue May 6 14:00:14 2008 Subject: [PS] Recent Primate News (May 6, 2008) Message-ID: <200805061900.m46J02b8009689@white.primate.wisc.edu> The following links were recently posted on Primates in the News http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/news/inthenews/ Time 100 Scientists and Thinkers: Shinya Yamanaka and James Thomson Time, May 12, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=7976 West, Central Africa seen as major source of next new disease AFP, April 30, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=7977 Chimp succumbs to head injuries Independent Online, May 2, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=7978 Scientist Says British Human Cloning Bill Would Allow Human-Chimp Mating Lifenews, May 2, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=7979 Ape Genius reveals depth of animal intelligence Telegraph, May 2, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=7980 World's rarest gorilla gets its own forest reserve Mongabay, April 18, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=7981 The Gorilla King PBS, April 19, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=7982 World's Rarest Gorillas Gain New Refuge National Geographic News, April 22, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=7984 DOR BioPharma Initiates Non-Human Primate Efficacy Studies of Vaccine Against Ricin Toxin PharmaLive.com, April 29, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=7985 Monkey see: Hogle Zoo patient gets fresh eyes Salt Lake Tribune, April 29, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=7986 New immune treatment may control AIDS virus Reuters, May 2, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=7987 More Than Skin Deep NCRR Reporter, Winter/Spring 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=7988 ------ Primates in the News on the web: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/news/inthenews/ Primates in the News via RSS feed: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/rss/news.xml Primates in the News is maintained by the Lawrence Jacobsen (WPRC) Library at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. WPRC programs are supported by grant numbers RR000167 and RR015311, National Primate Centers Program, National Center for Research Resources, the National Institutes of Health. Note that the Wisconsin Primate Research Center provides Primates in the News as an informational service. We are not responsible for the content of linked sites, nor does inclusion of a link imply endorsement of the views expressed in that content. ------ From primate-science at primate.wisc.edu Tue May 6 22:23:44 2008 From: primate-science at primate.wisc.edu (Viagra.com Inc ®) Date: Tue May 6 22:23:41 2008 Subject: [PS] RE: Official Site Message-ID: <1602855265.06712.364272108-2437@cimail18.msn.com> Spam detection software, running on the system "new-white.primate.wisc.edu", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see Postmaster for details. Content preview: Dear primate-science@white.primate.wisc.edu Online Pharmacy Products! Tuesday, May 06, 2008, Issue No. 85014 About this mailing: You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. This will not unsubscribe you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN Feature Offers. This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice. [...] Content analysis details: (20.6 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 2.0 URIBL_BLACK Contains an URL listed in the URIBL blacklist [URIs: ksueive.com] 0.0 MISSING_DATE Missing Date: header 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay lines 1.5 ONLINE_PHARMACY BODY: Online Pharmacy 0.0 TVD_VISIT_PHARMA BODY: TVD_VISIT_PHARMA 1.8 HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_20 BODY: HTML: images with 1600-2000 bytes of words 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 1.7 MIME_HTML_ONLY BODY: Message only has text/html MIME parts 2.9 RCVD_IN_XBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus XBL [59.98.88.10 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] 0.5 RCVD_IN_PBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus PBL 2.1 URIBL_WS_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the WS SURBL blocklist [URIs: ksueive.com] 2.9 URIBL_JP_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the JP SURBL blocklist [URIs: ksueive.com] 2.1 URIBL_OB_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the OB SURBL blocklist [URIs: ksueive.com] 2.5 URIBL_SC_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the SC SURBL blocklist [URIs: ksueive.com] 0.6 HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3 HTML is very short with a linked image 0.1 RDNS_NONE Delivered to trusted network by a host with no rDNS The original message was not completely plain text, and may be unsafe to open with some email clients; in particular, it may contain a virus, or confirm that your address can receive spam. If you wish to view it, it may be safer to save it to a file and open it with an editor. -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Viagra.com Inc ? Subject: RE: Official Site Date: no date Size: 2848 Url: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080506/d56e31be/attachment.mht From jdewar at gorilla-haven.org Wed May 7 12:23:55 2008 From: jdewar at gorilla-haven.org (Jane T. R. Dewar) Date: Wed May 7 13:04:18 2008 Subject: [PS] Re: Creating new "Protected Areas" in the Democratic Republic of Congo References: Message-ID: <003b01c8b067$23d34eb0$0f00a8c0@Jane4600> Reposted with permission and by request ... This seems a bit odd/sad when dealing with such a rare/endangered species that everyone can't share info - especially when working in such a difficult, war-torn environment. j ----- Original Message ----- From: Bonobo Working Group To: scoxe@bonobo.org Cc: jdupainawfdrc@micronet.cd ; fruth@eva.mpg.de ; furuichi@pri.kyoto-u.ac.jp ; teresehart@gmail.com ; atoham@wwfcarpo.org ; jat434@aol.com ; lukuru@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 7:25 AM Subject: Creating new "Protected Areas" in the Democratic Republic of Congo Dear Sally, We have made repeated requests to you for information concerning the scientific basis for the many new "linked-Reserves" you are supporting within DR Congo forest in the range of the endemic bonobo. We have requested information about your collaboration with affected communities on the ground in the designation of limits of your Reserves. You have refused to give us any information or repeatedly ignored our requests. This is alarming as the requests come from your colleagues. We are making ourselves known in the list below. We repeat very briefly here why we request this transparency. Forest conservation is not only critical but it is essential that the areas of highest importance to biodiversity and conservation of endemic species be protected. These areas must be delimited in such a way that they are indeed protectable. Areas of high biodiversity value are found through survey work that, Sally, you say BCI has done for the Sankuru Reserve and other Reserves you support, but you have not shared your results. Your colleagues have shared their information and are asking for the complement of information you say exists. Why is it unavailable? This is alarming because based on the evidence of others, the reserves you support are either mis-located or occur in areas where local communities have made other conservation commitments. Your Congolese colleagues suffer as a result and have expressed a desire for greater integration with other scientists and conservationists. Sharing of information is critical to working together. This came out clearly at the bonobo meetings in Kinshasa (12 and15 March; minutes available on request). Sharing of information is also critical to good and successful forest conservation. Jef Dupain, AWF-Heartland Director, DRC Barbara Fruth, Director of "Projet Cuvette Centrale" Max-Planck-Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology Takeshi Furuichi, Professor, Primate Research Institute, Kyoto University and Chairman of Wamba Committee for Bonobo Research Terese Hart, Director of TL2 Project Andre Kamden-Toham, WWF Ecoregion Senior Leader for the Congo Basin Jo Thompson, Director of Lukuru Wildlife Research Project Claudine Andr?, President and Founder of ABC, Director of "Lola ya Bonobo" and "Ekolo ya Bonobo" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080507/e26fd6a5/attachment.html From hamel at primate.wisc.edu Wed May 7 14:00:02 2008 From: hamel at primate.wisc.edu (Ray Hamel) Date: Wed May 7 14:00:10 2008 Subject: [PS] Recent Primate News (May 7, 2008) Message-ID: <200805071900.m47J02pM027649@white.primate.wisc.edu> The following links were recently posted on Primates in the News http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/news/inthenews/ Orangutan endangered in Indonesia Associated Press, May 7, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=7989 ------ Primates in the News on the web: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/news/inthenews/ Primates in the News via RSS feed: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/rss/news.xml Primates in the News is maintained by the Lawrence Jacobsen (WPRC) Library at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. WPRC programs are supported by grant numbers RR000167 and RR015311, National Primate Centers Program, National Center for Research Resources, the National Institutes of Health. Note that the Wisconsin Primate Research Center provides Primates in the News as an informational service. We are not responsible for the content of linked sites, nor does inclusion of a link imply endorsement of the views expressed in that content. ------ From jgrehan at sciencebuff.org Wed May 7 16:48:13 2008 From: jgrehan at sciencebuff.org (John Grehan) Date: Wed May 7 16:48:22 2008 Subject: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny In-Reply-To: <1681BF791CF243841DDF4881@dhcp-210-176.cns.ohiou.edu> References: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF2@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> <8CA7A7AE4629119-DFC-4D2D@webmail-ne08.sysops.aol.com><23DC50AB3E8A838F00D646C2@dhcp-210-176.cns.ohiou.edu><26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF7@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> <1681BF791CF243841DDF4881@dhcp-210-176.cns.ohiou.edu> Message-ID: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BC44@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> Hogan, I finally got a copy of Watts' 1991 paper, although my subsequent posts probably already clarified what I was referring to in the way of females initiating copulations in orangutans. Watts' paper does not refer to female mountain gorillas initiating copulation. On p. 217 the author states "A male initiates copulations either by approaching a female and displaying at or touching her by gazing at her and giving a 'train grunt' vocalization. The female presents in response" So unless I missed something (always possible in a quick read!) this seems to indicate that mountain gorillas are pretty much like the other African apes as well as lesser apes and most monkeys. Also, the paper documents the labial swelling and also confirms the short duration of copulation. A good paper that I will file for future reference. Many thanks! John Grehan > In regards to 'copulatory mounting', John, could you please explain that > term a bit more? If you're referring to females initiating copulations, > see > Watts's paper from 1991 on mountain gorillas. If you're talking about > something else, please fill me in. Thanks. > > Hogan > > > > --On May 2, 2008 12:14:32 PM -0400 John Grehan > wrote: > > > It is not quite correct to say that only chimps and bonobo are different > > in producing ovulatory swelling. There is slight swelling in ovulating > > gorillas (see references in my Mona Lisa paper). > > > > Gorilla females may be proreceptive like other apes and humans, but so > > far only human and orangutan females are known to initiate copulatory > > mounting. > > > > John Grehan > > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: primate-science-bounces@primate.wisc.edu > > [mailto:primate-science- > >> bounces@primate.wisc.edu] On Behalf Of Hogan > >> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 11:27 AM > >> To: lowlandgorilla@aol.com; primate-science@primate.wisc.edu > >> Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny > >> > >> Yes, gorilla females are not just REceptive, but are PROceptive during > >> ovulation, as are orang, gibbon and human females. In fact of the > > living > >> apes, it is really the chimp and bonobo who are different because > > females > >> produce swellings and have an 'estrous' period during which they > > advertise > >> their reproductive potential. Take care all. > >> > >> Hogan > >> > >> --On May 2, 2008 10:49:43 AM -0400 lowlandgorilla@aol.com wrote: > >> > >> > Sexual solicitation (i.e. presenting, stance, staring, facial > >> expressions) > >> > > >> > Rick > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: Rebecca Richardson > >> > To: Rui Boliqueime Martins Diogo > >> > Cc: primate-science@primate.wisc.edu > >> > Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 7:07 am > >> > Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > quick question - how do gorillas "reveal" their ovulation, as > > opposed to > >> > idea of orantuans/humans having concealed ovulation? > >> > > >> > Rebecca Richardson > >> > > >> > Antioch New England-Environmental Studies PhD Program > >> > Tel: (678) 358-2833 > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Primate-Science mailing list > >> > Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu > >> > http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > __________________________________________________ > >> > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping > > Site. > >> > >> > >> > >> Hogan M. Sherrow > >> Ph.D. Candidate > >> Dept of Anthropology > >> Yale University > >> Assistant Professor > >> Dept of Sociology & Anthropology > >> Ohio University > >> Phone: (740) 597-2765 > >> Fax: (740) 593-1365 > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Primate-Science mailing list > >> Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu > >> http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science > > > > Hogan M. Sherrow > Ph.D. Candidate > Dept of Anthropology > Yale University > Assistant Professor > Dept of Sociology & Anthropology > Ohio University > Phone: (740) 597-2765 > Fax: (740) 593-1365 > _______________________________________________ > Primate-Science mailing list > Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu > http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science From hamel at primate.wisc.edu Thu May 8 00:00:01 2008 From: hamel at primate.wisc.edu (Ray Hamel) Date: Thu May 8 00:00:11 2008 Subject: [PS] Recent Primate-Jobs postings Message-ID: <200805080500.m48501rn004371@white.primate.wisc.edu> The following listings were recently posted on Primate-Jobs http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs --POSITIONS AVAILABLE-- Special Collections Librarian, WI National Primate Research Center http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs/listings/1197 ------ Primate-Jobs on the web: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs Primate-Jobs via RSS feed: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/rss/jobs.xml Primate-Jobs is maintained by the Lawrence Jacobsen (WPRC) Library at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. WPRC programs are supported by grant numbers RR000167 and RR015311, National Primate Centers Program, National Center for Research Resources, the National Institutes of Health. Note that the responsibility for conforming to local, state, regional and national employment listing regulations lies with the listing organization. The Wisconsin Primate Research Center, the University of Wisconsin, and the National Center for Research Resources (National Institutes of Health), will not be held liable for misinformation in, or consequences resulting from, postings to Primate-Jobs. Inclusion of a job listing does not imply endorsement of the listing organization. ------ From jgrehan at sciencebuff.org Thu May 8 07:08:14 2008 From: jgrehan at sciencebuff.org (John Grehan) Date: Thu May 8 07:08:28 2008 Subject: [PS] copulation initiation Message-ID: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BC4A@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> Below is a response to an off list comment for your general interest (with the name of the correspondent removed). Thanks for the information. It does seem from scattered comments of this kind that this behavior does occur to some varying extent in at least some species, but as you mention, one needs to know that the behavior is of some significance before it gains attention. It seems that outside the great apes there is relatively little detailed documentation of the physical aspects of primate mating for most species. I cannot even get basic biological information on many species with regard to how long a copulation lasts, and whether or not genital swelling/color change takes place (although there might be more information out there, it takes a lot of time and searching to dig up). Hopefully in the future more attention will be given to such aspects if people are aware that it might be informative about theories of human origin. As you sent this to me privately I presume you wish anonymity so I will also post this on the primate list without your name. John Grehan > Hi John, > > For what it's worth, I have seen female capuchin monkeys, spider > monkeys, barbary macaques and hamadryas baboons (all captive, some > wild-born, others > not) initiate copulation with males (ie act very 'sexy', back onto the > males, etc). I have no references to send you, but have simply > watched it happen many times. I may have seen rhesus monkeys doing it > too... it would've been several years ago and I did not realise that > it was a behaviour that might be out of the ordinary! > > Just thought it might be interesting in light of the conversation > that's been going on. Dr. John R. Grehan Director of Science and Collections Buffalo Museum of Science1020 Humboldt Parkway Buffalo, NY 14211-1193 email: jgrehan@sciencebuff.org Phone: (716) 896-5200 ext 372 Panbiogeography http://www.sciencebuff.org/biogeography_and_evolutionary_biology.php Ghost moth research http://www.sciencebuff.org/systematics_and_evolution_of_hepialdiae.php Human evolution and the great apes http://www.sciencebuff.org/human_origin_and_the_great_apes.php ? From jgrehan at sciencebuff.org Thu May 8 11:59:54 2008 From: jgrehan at sciencebuff.org (John Grehan) Date: Thu May 8 12:00:12 2008 Subject: [PS] copulation started by female Message-ID: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BC51@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> Here is another off list response (with name removed) that I felt was also of general interest as it deals with clarification of the subject. > John: > right before your quote David Watts wrote: > Females initiated 63% of observed copulations. A female does this by > slowly approaching and staring at the male, and she may reach towards or > touch him if he does not respond quickly. > In addition, (info from Diane Doran-Sheehy) there should older papers that > report female initiation/ solicitation; papers by Nadler as well as > Harcourt. That is correct, but this is different to physically starting the copulation itself. That is what I am referring to. In gorillas the male starts the copulation act (this is what I mean by initiate) whereas in humans and orangutans the female will sometimes physically manipulate the penis and then start the copulation by mounting the male. This does not occur in the other great apes. It seems that sometimes in some other primates the female will start the copulation act where the male is already aroused. Whether there are species where the female also physically arouses the male before starting the copulation is another as yet unanswered question. John From hamel at primate.wisc.edu Thu May 8 14:00:02 2008 From: hamel at primate.wisc.edu (Ray Hamel) Date: Thu May 8 14:00:09 2008 Subject: [PS] Recent Primate News (May 8, 2008) Message-ID: <200805081900.m48J02AX015006@white.primate.wisc.edu> The following links were recently posted on Primates in the News http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/news/inthenews/ It Started With A Squeak: Moonlight Serenade Helps Lemurs Pick Mates Of The Right Species ScienceDaily, May 7, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=7990 ------ Primates in the News on the web: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/news/inthenews/ Primates in the News via RSS feed: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/rss/news.xml Primates in the News is maintained by the Lawrence Jacobsen (WPRC) Library at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. WPRC programs are supported by grant numbers RR000167 and RR015311, National Primate Centers Program, National Center for Research Resources, the National Institutes of Health. Note that the Wisconsin Primate Research Center provides Primates in the News as an informational service. We are not responsible for the content of linked sites, nor does inclusion of a link imply endorsement of the views expressed in that content. ------ From jgrehan at sciencebuff.org Fri May 9 13:22:28 2008 From: jgrehan at sciencebuff.org (John Grehan) Date: Fri May 9 13:22:41 2008 Subject: [PS] gibbon estriol and estrogen Message-ID: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BC66@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> I would be most grateful if anyone direct me to publications documenting the maximum estriol production levels for gibbons or any monkey species not including the capuchin or langur. I have the following values for Homo (22-25 ?g/mg), Pongo (14-16 ?g/mg), Pan paniscus (4 ?g/mg), Gorilla (1 ?g/mg), capuchin monkey (1.5 ?g/mg) and langur monkey (1 ?g/mg) I also need information on total estrogen production for gorillas, gibbons and monkeys. My current information is 20-24 ?g/mg in Homo and Pongo compared with about 8 ?g/mg in bonobos, 9 ?g/mg in langurs, and a double peak of 24 ?g/mg and 43 ?g/mg in capuchins. These values are from Czekala et al (1981, 1983, 1988) Dr. John R. Grehan Director of Science and Collections Buffalo Museum of Science1020 Humboldt Parkway Buffalo, NY 14211-1193 email: jgrehan@sciencebuff.org Phone: (716) 896-5200 ext 372 Panbiogeography http://www.sciencebuff.org/biogeography_and_evolutionary_biology.php Ghost moth research http://www.sciencebuff.org/systematics_and_evolution_of_hepialdiae.php Human evolution and the great apes http://www.sciencebuff.org/human_origin_and_the_great_apes.php ? From hamel at primate.wisc.edu Fri May 9 14:00:03 2008 From: hamel at primate.wisc.edu (Ray Hamel) Date: Fri May 9 14:00:11 2008 Subject: [PS] Recent Primate News (May 9, 2008) Message-ID: <200805091900.m49J03HY002161@white.primate.wisc.edu> The following links were recently posted on Primates in the News http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/news/inthenews/ New lab opens to the public Daily Cardinal, May 9, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8009 ------ Primates in the News on the web: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/news/inthenews/ Primates in the News via RSS feed: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/rss/news.xml Primates in the News is maintained by the Lawrence Jacobsen (WPRC) Library at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. WPRC programs are supported by grant numbers RR000167 and RR015311, National Primate Centers Program, National Center for Research Resources, the National Institutes of Health. Note that the Wisconsin Primate Research Center provides Primates in the News as an informational service. We are not responsible for the content of linked sites, nor does inclusion of a link imply endorsement of the views expressed in that content. ------ From hamel at primate.wisc.edu Tue May 13 00:00:03 2008 From: hamel at primate.wisc.edu (Ray Hamel) Date: Tue May 13 00:00:19 2008 Subject: [PS] Recent Primate-Jobs postings Message-ID: <200805130500.m4D503RS014787@white.primate.wisc.edu> The following listings were recently posted on Primate-Jobs http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs --POSITIONS AVAILABLE-- Animal Behaviourist, 26 hours a week, AAP sanctuary for exotic animals http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs/listings/1198 Research Specialist - Assay Services, WI National Primate Research Center http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs/listings/1199 ------ Primate-Jobs on the web: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs Primate-Jobs via RSS feed: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/rss/jobs.xml Primate-Jobs is maintained by the Lawrence Jacobsen (WPRC) Library at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. WPRC programs are supported by grant numbers RR000167 and RR015311, National Primate Centers Program, National Center for Research Resources, the National Institutes of Health. Note that the responsibility for conforming to local, state, regional and national employment listing regulations lies with the listing organization. The Wisconsin Primate Research Center, the University of Wisconsin, and the National Center for Research Resources (National Institutes of Health), will not be held liable for misinformation in, or consequences resulting from, postings to Primate-Jobs. Inclusion of a job listing does not imply endorsement of the listing organization. ------ From jdewar at gorilla-haven.org Wed May 14 09:29:54 2008 From: jdewar at gorilla-haven.org (Jane T. R. Dewar) Date: Wed May 14 09:31:10 2008 Subject: [PS] Gorilla Gazette Electronic version Message-ID: <014201c8b5ce$fc4d1660$0f00a8c0@Jane4600> (Apologies for cross posts) ... The May 2008 issue of the Gorilla Gazette is almost ready in its electronic form and will be sent out to subscribers by the end of the week (maybe even today, if all goes well). Subscriptions for the E-version are free. If you don't get the email by Monday, May 19th, it means you're not subscribed or there may be a discrepancy with your email. The printed version (paid subscriptions only) has hit a road-block with a new printing company and may be delayed until mid-June. If you want to be added to the E-GG list, please send me an email at jdewar@gorilla-haven.org and provide this information: Your name Your affiliation (ie: keeper, student, in-situ, fan, etc) Your email Your address/city/state Thank you! Jane Dewar Publisher Gorilla Gazette Founder, Gorilla Haven www.gorilla-haven.org Thank you! Jane Dewar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080514/58e2864e/attachment.html From hamel at primate.wisc.edu Wed May 14 14:00:04 2008 From: hamel at primate.wisc.edu (Ray Hamel) Date: Wed May 14 14:00:17 2008 Subject: [PS] Recent Primate News (May 14, 2008) Message-ID: <200805141900.m4EJ04tN014140@white.primate.wisc.edu> The following links were recently posted on Primates in the News http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/news/inthenews/ Gorillas in our midst News.com.au, Australia, May 12, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8010 Oldest gorilla in captivity turns 55 at Dallas Zoo Associated Press, May 9, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8011 Goodall, Green Mountain Coffee, go to aid of Gombe chimps Boston Herald, May 9, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8012 Dr. Murray E. Jarvik, 84; UCLA pharmacologist invented nicotine patch Los Angeles Times, May 14, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8013 ------ Primates in the News on the web: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/news/inthenews/ Primates in the News via RSS feed: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/rss/news.xml Primates in the News is maintained by the Lawrence Jacobsen (WPRC) Library at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. WPRC programs are supported by grant numbers RR000167 and RR015311, National Primate Centers Program, National Center for Research Resources, the National Institutes of Health. Note that the Wisconsin Primate Research Center provides Primates in the News as an informational service. We are not responsible for the content of linked sites, nor does inclusion of a link imply endorsement of the views expressed in that content. ------ From hamel at primate.wisc.edu Thu May 15 00:00:02 2008 From: hamel at primate.wisc.edu (Ray Hamel) Date: Thu May 15 00:00:21 2008 Subject: [PS] Recent Primate-Jobs postings Message-ID: <200805150500.m4F5027i020874@white.primate.wisc.edu> The following listings were recently posted on Primate-Jobs http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs --POSITIONS AVAILABLE-- Veterinary Technician, SNBL USA, Ltd. http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs/listings/1200 Study Coordinator, SNBL USA, Ltd. http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs/listings/1201 Primate Caregiver, Wildlife Care Center of Belize http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs/listings/1202 Two Baboon field Assistants required, Louise de Raad, PhD student, Durham University in collaboration with Lajuma Research Centre in South Africa http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs/listings/1203 Environmental Enrichment Associate I, SNBL USA, Ltd. http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs/listings/1204 Laboratory Technician, SNBL USA, Ltd. http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs/listings/1205 ------ Primate-Jobs on the web: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs Primate-Jobs via RSS feed: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/rss/jobs.xml Primate-Jobs is maintained by the Lawrence Jacobsen (WPRC) Library at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. WPRC programs are supported by grant numbers RR000167 and RR015311, National Primate Centers Program, National Center for Research Resources, the National Institutes of Health. Note that the responsibility for conforming to local, state, regional and national employment listing regulations lies with the listing organization. The Wisconsin Primate Research Center, the University of Wisconsin, and the National Center for Research Resources (National Institutes of Health), will not be held liable for misinformation in, or consequences resulting from, postings to Primate-Jobs. Inclusion of a job listing does not imply endorsement of the listing organization. ------ From brown at primate.wisc.edu Thu May 15 13:20:21 2008 From: brown at primate.wisc.edu (Joanne Brown) Date: Thu May 15 13:20:16 2008 Subject: [PS] New Book Announcement: Primeval Kinship: How Pair-bonding Gave Birth To Human Society Message-ID: <482C7EE5.2090702@primate.wisc.edu> PRIMEVAL KINSHIP: How Pair Bonding Gave Birth to Human Society Bernard Chapais ABOUT THE BOOK At some point in the course of evolution, from a primeval social organization of early hominids, all human societies, past and present, would emerge. In this account of the dawn of human society, Bernard Chapais shows that our knowledge about kinship and society in nonhuman primates supports, and informs, ideas first put forward by the distinguished social anthropologist, Claude Levi-Strauss. Chapais contends that only a few evolutionary steps were required to bridge the gap between the kinship structures of our closest relatives--chimpanzees and bonobos--and the human kinship configuration. The pivotal event, the author proposes, was the evolution of sexual alliances. Pair-bonding transformed a social organization loosely based on kinship into one exhibiting the strong hold of kinship and affinity. The implication is that the gap between chimpanzee societies and pre-linguistic hominid societies is narrower than we might think. Many books on kinship have been written by social anthropologists, but Primeval Kinship is the first book dedicated to the evolutionary origins of human kinship. And perhaps equally important, it is the first book to suggest that the study of kinship and social organization can provide a link between social and biological anthropology. ABOUT THE AUTHOR Bernard Chapais is Professor of Anthropology, University of Montreal. CONTENTS 1. The Question of the Origin of Human Society -- A Forsaken Quest -- The Deep Structure of Human Societies PART I. Primatologists As Evolutionary Historians 2. Primatology and the Evolution of Human Behavior -- The Phylogenetic Decomposition Principle -- Reconstructing the Exogamy Configuration 3. The Uterine Kinship Legacy -- Primatological Theories and Primate Legacies -- Appraising Primate Kinship -- The Domain of Uterine Kindred in Primates -- How Are Uterine Kin Recognized? -- The Origin of Group-wide Kinship Structures 4. From Biological to Cultural Kinship -- Beyond Consanguineal Kinship -- The "Genealogical Unity of Mankind" -- The Bilateral Character of Human Kinship 5. The Incest Avoidance Legacy -- Elements of a Primatological Theory of Incest Avoidance -- Humankind's Primate Heritage 6. From Behavioral Regularities to Institutionalized Rules -- The Anthropologists' Treatment of the Primate Data -- The Westermarck Knot -- The Morality Problem -- Lessons from Comparative Anatomy PART II. The Exogamy Configuration Decomposed 7. Levi-Strauss and the Deep Structure of Human Society -- Reciprocal Exogamy as a Deep Structuring Principle -- Reciprocal Exogamy as Archaic -- The Convergence beyond the Critiques -- Levi-Strauss and the Primate Data 8. Human Society Out of the Evolutionary Vacuum -- Leslie White and the Primate Origins of Exogamy -- Elman Service and the Primitive Exogamous Band -- Robin Fox and the Initial Deconstruction of Exogamy 9. The Building Blocks of Exogamy -- Pinpointing the Distinctiveness of Exogamy -- Reconstructing Human Society: The Task Ahead -- A Once Irreducible System PART III. The Exogamy Configuration Reconstructed 10. The Ancestral Male Kin Group Hypothesis -- The Patrilocal Band Model -- Male Philopatry in Apes -- The Homology Hypothesis -- Updating the Ancestral Male Kin Group Hypothesis -- The Gorilla Alternative 11. The Evolutionary History of Pair-Bonding -- The "Invariant Core of the Family" -- Pair-Bonds as Parental Partnerships -- The Pitfall of the Modern Family Reference -- A Two-Step Evolutionary Sequence -- Monogamy as a Special Case of Polygyny -- The Evolutionary History of the Sexual Division of Labor 12. Pair-Bonding and the Reinvention of Kinship -- The Fundamental Equation of the Exogamy Configuration -- Kinship in the Ancestral Male Kin Group -- Fatherhood -- The Institutionalized Denial of Paternity -- The Development of Agnatic Kinship Structures 13. Biparentality and the Transformation of Siblingships -- Chimpanzee Siblingships -- Fatherhood and the Evolution of Strong Brotherhoods -- Fatherhood and the Brother-Sister Bond -- The Added Effect of Shorter Interbirth Intervals 14. Beyond the Local Group: The Rise of the Tribe -- Male Pacification as a Prerequisite for the Tribe -- Females as Peacemakers: The Consanguinity Route -- Females as Peacemakers: The Affinity Route -- The Initial Impetus -- The Prelinguistic Tribe 15. From Male Philopatry to Residential Diversity -- Some Serious Discrepancies -- The Emergence of Residential Diversity -- Ancestral Patrilocality and Grandmothering 16. Brothers, Sisters, and the Founding Principle of Exogamy -- The First Step: Outmarriage -- Affinal Brotherhoods and the Origin of Exogamy Rules -- From Siblings-in-Law to Cross-Cousins -- The "Atom of Kinship" Revisited PART IV. Unilineal Descent 17. Filiation, Descent, and Ideology -- The African Model of Unilineal Descent Groups -- The Chestnut within the Model 18. The Primate Origins of Unilineal Descent Groups -- Group Membership through Birth -- Kinship-Based Segmentation -- The Genealogical Boundaries of Exogamy -- The Unisexual Transmission of Status -- Primitive Corporateness -- A Multilevel Structure of Solidarity 19. The Evolutionary History of Human Descent -- Female Kin Groups as Precultural Matriclans -- The Residential Basis of Proto-Descent Groups -- The Latent Patriclan -- Matrilineality as a Male Affair 20. Conclusion: Human Society as Contingent References Index WHERE TO ORDER ISBN 10: 0-674-02782-5, ISBN 13: 978-0-674-02782-4 ($39.95 Hardback) Harvard University Press 79 Garden St. Cambridge, Massachusetts 02138 Tel: 617-496-1340 Fax: 617-349-5244 Website: http://www.hup.harvard.edu/index.html Link to Order Online: http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/CHAPRI.html?show=catalogcopy PRIMATE-SCIENCE BOOK ANNOUNCEMENT POLICY Wisconsin National Primate Research Center National Primate Research Centers Program University of Wisconsin-Madison ***************************************************** The WNPRC posts information about books received to Primate-Science. Postings include descriptive information, table of contents, publisher and ordering instructions. This posting goes out to >800 subscribers in the international primatological community. The announcement is also posted to Primate Info Net, a major web site for primatology. All postings to Primate-Science of items for sale must be cleared with the WPRC Internet Services Advisory Committee. Please send books or videotapes to Primate-Science Coordinator, Wisconsin National Primate Research Center, University of Wisconsin, 1220 Capitol Court, Madison, WI 53705-1299. For further information contact Raymond Hamel at: hamel@primate.wisc.edu or 608-263-8316. Other titles announced on Primate-Science can be found at: http://library.primate.wisc.edu/collections/books/ Primate-Science mailing list: http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science -- Joanne Brown, Technical Services Librarian Jacobsen Library and Information Service Wisconsin National Primate Research Center 1220 Capitol Ct. Madison, WI 53715-1237 Phone: 608-263-3512 Fax: 608-265-2067 Email: brown@primate.wisc.edu From hccm2 at cam.ac.uk Fri May 16 06:20:56 2008 From: hccm2 at cam.ac.uk (H.C.C. Morrogh-Bernard) Date: Fri May 16 06:20:48 2008 Subject: [PS] (USG) Urine Specfic Gravity readings for orang-utans In-Reply-To: <200805071900.m47J02pM027649@white.primate.wisc.edu> References: <200805071900.m47J02pM027649@white.primate.wisc.edu> Message-ID: Hello. A question on refractometer (USG) reading for orang-utans. I am testing the concentration of urine in wild orang-utans using a refractometer. The normal values for humans is between 1.002 - 1.028, and the normal value for animals blood usually has a SG of 1.008-1.012. As orang-utans do not sit around drinking lots of water all day, as we do, does anyone know what the correct USG (Urine Specific Gravity) values should be for orang-utans? Thanks for your help. Regards Helen Morrogh-Bernard From hccm2 at cam.ac.uk Fri May 16 06:25:01 2008 From: hccm2 at cam.ac.uk (H.C.C. Morrogh-Bernard) Date: Fri May 16 06:24:46 2008 Subject: [PS] Urine Specific Gravity (USG) - for orang-utans In-Reply-To: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF5@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> References: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF2@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF5@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> Message-ID: Hello. A question on refractometer (USG) reading for orang-utans. I am testing the concentration of urine in orang-utans using a refractometer. The normal values for humans is between 1.002 - 1.028, and the normal value for animals blood usually has a SG of 1.008-1.012. As orang-utans do not sit around drinking lots of water all day, as we do, does anyone know what the correct USG (Urine Specific Gravity) values should be for orang-utans? Thanks for your help. Regards Helen Morrogh-Bernard. From caldararo at aol.com Fri May 16 13:04:02 2008 From: caldararo at aol.com (caldararo@aol.com) Date: Fri May 16 13:04:03 2008 Subject: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny In-Reply-To: <23DC50AB3E8A838F00D646C2@dhcp-210-176.cns.ohiou.edu> References: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF2@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org > <8CA7A7AE4629119-DFC-4D2D@webmail-ne08.sysops.aol.com> <23DC50AB3E8A838F00D646C2@dhcp-210-176.cns.ohiou.edu> Message-ID: <8CA85965B1CDFD4-D5C-511@webmail-ne08.sysops.aol.com> One has to be careful here in describing "estrous" periods. ?There are numerous forms of estrous in mammals, some physiological, some behavioral. Niccolo Caldararo, Ph.D. Dept. of Anthropology San Francisco State University -----Original Message----- From: Hogan To: lowlandgorilla@aol.com; primate-science@primate.wisc.edu Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 8:26 am Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny Yes, gorilla females are not just REceptive, but are PROceptive during ovulation, as are orang, gibbon and human females. In fact of the living apes, it is really the chimp and bonobo who are different because females produce swellings and have an 'estrous' period during which they advertise their reproductive potential. Take care all.? ? Hogan? ? --On May 2, 2008 10:49:43 AM -0400 lowlandgorilla@aol.com wrote:? ? > Sexual solicitation (i.e. presenting, stance, staring, facial expressions)? >? > Rick? >? >? >? > -----Original Message-----? > From: Rebecca Richardson ? > To: Rui Boliqueime Martins Diogo ? > Cc: primate-science@primate.wisc.edu? > Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 7:07 am? > Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny? >? >? >? > quick question - how do gorillas "reveal" their ovulation, as opposed to? > idea of orantuans/humans having concealed ovulation?? >? > Rebecca Richardson? >? > Antioch New England-Environmental Studies PhD Program? > Tel: (678) 358-2833? >? >? >? > _______________________________________________? > Primate-Science mailing list? > Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu? > http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science? >? >? >? > __________________________________________________? > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site.? ? ? Hogan M. Sherrow? Ph.D. Candidate? Dept of Anthropology? Yale University? Assistant Professor? Dept of Sociology & Anthropology? Ohio University? Phone: (740) 597-2765? Fax: (740) 593-1365? _______________________________________________? Primate-Science mailing list? Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu? http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080516/de81fcda/attachment.html From sherrow at ohio.edu Fri May 16 13:56:49 2008 From: sherrow at ohio.edu (Hogan) Date: Fri May 16 13:56:47 2008 Subject: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny In-Reply-To: <8CA85965B1CDFD4-D5C-511@webmail-ne08.sysops.aol.com> References: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF2@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org > <8CA7A7AE4629119-DFC-4D2D@webmail-ne08.sysops.aol.com> <23DC50AB3E8A838F00D646C2@dhcp-210-176.cns.ohiou.edu> <8CA85965B1CDFD4-D5C-511@webmail-ne08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <0151BD24E2CA6FADB079EBE3@dhcp-210-176.cns.ohiou.edu> I wholeheartedly agree Niccolo, we have to be careful when describing estrous periods or cycles. I should have been more careful and finished my thought which was that female chimpanzees and bonobos are different from other female apes because they have exaggerated swellings in addition to behavioral changes, like proceptivity, that are recognized as an estrous period. Take care all. Hogan --On May 16, 2008 2:04:02 PM -0400 caldararo@aol.com wrote: > One has to be careful here in describing "estrous" periods. ?There are > numerous forms of estrous in mammals, some physiological, some > behavioral. > > > Niccolo Caldararo, Ph.D. > Dept. of Anthropology > San Francisco State University > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Hogan > To: lowlandgorilla@aol.com; primate-science@primate.wisc.edu > Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 8:26 am > Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny > > > Yes, gorilla females are not just REceptive, but are PROceptive during > ovulation, as are orang, gibbon and human females. In fact of the living > apes, it is really the chimp and bonobo who are different because females > produce swellings and have an 'estrous' period during which they > advertise their reproductive potential. Take care all.? > ? > Hogan? > ? > --On May 2, 2008 10:49:43 AM -0400 lowlandgorilla@aol.com wrote:? > ? >> Sexual solicitation (i.e. presenting, stance, staring, facial >> expressions)? ? >> Rick? >> ? >> ? >> ? >> -----Original Message-----? >> From: Rebecca Richardson ? >> To: Rui Boliqueime Martins Diogo ? >> Cc: primate-science@primate.wisc.edu? >> Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 7:07 am? >> Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny? >> ? >> ? >> ? >> quick question - how do gorillas "reveal" their ovulation, as opposed >> to? idea of orantuans/humans having concealed ovulation?? >> ? >> Rebecca Richardson? >> ? >> Antioch New England-Environmental Studies PhD Program? >> Tel: (678) 358-2833? >> ? >> ? >> ? >> _______________________________________________? >> Primate-Science mailing list? >> Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu? >> http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science? >> ? >> ? >> ? >> __________________________________________________? >> Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site.? > ? > ? > Hogan M. Sherrow? > Ph.D. Candidate? > Dept of Anthropology? > Yale University? > Assistant Professor? > Dept of Sociology & Anthropology? > Ohio University? > Phone: (740) 597-2765? > Fax: (740) 593-1365? > _______________________________________________? > Primate-Science mailing list? > Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu? > http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science? > > > __________________________________________________ > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. Hogan M. Sherrow Ph.D. Candidate Dept of Anthropology Yale University Assistant Professor Dept of Sociology & Anthropology Ohio University Phone: (740) 597-2765 Fax: (740) 593-1365 From hamel at primate.wisc.edu Fri May 16 14:00:03 2008 From: hamel at primate.wisc.edu (Ray Hamel) Date: Fri May 16 14:00:09 2008 Subject: [PS] Recent Primate News (May 16, 2008) Message-ID: <200805161900.m4GJ03o2019996@white.primate.wisc.edu> The following links were recently posted on Primates in the News http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/news/inthenews/ Orlando-area pet owners go ape over their primate 'monkids' Orlando Sentinel, April 7, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8014 ------ Primates in the News on the web: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/news/inthenews/ Primates in the News via RSS feed: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/rss/news.xml Primates in the News is maintained by the Lawrence Jacobsen (WPRC) Library at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. WPRC programs are supported by grant numbers RR000167 and RR015311, National Primate Centers Program, National Center for Research Resources, the National Institutes of Health. Note that the Wisconsin Primate Research Center provides Primates in the News as an informational service. We are not responsible for the content of linked sites, nor does inclusion of a link imply endorsement of the views expressed in that content. ------ From lowlandgorilla at aol.com Fri May 16 14:11:03 2008 From: lowlandgorilla at aol.com (lowlandgorilla@aol.com) Date: Fri May 16 14:11:20 2008 Subject: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny In-Reply-To: <8CA85965B1CDFD4-D5C-511@webmail-ne08.sysops.aol.com> References: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF2@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org > <8CA7A7AE4629119-DFC-4D2D@webmail-ne08.sysops.aol.com> <23DC50AB3E8A838F00D646C2@dhcp-210-176.cns.ohiou.edu> <8CA85965B1CDFD4-D5C-511@webmail-ne08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CA859FB78F5F42-85C-1CB6@webmail-ne01.sysops.aol.com> Hi Niccolo, My comments were directed at sexual receptivity which is within the definition of estrous.? Rick Murphy -----Original Message----- From: caldararo@aol.com To: sherrow@ohio.edu; lowlandgorilla@aol.com; primate-science@primate.wisc.edu Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 11:04 am Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny One has to be careful here in describing "estrous" periods. ?There are numerous forms of estrous in mammals, some physiological, some behavioral. Niccolo Caldararo, Ph.D. Dept. of Anthropology San Francisco State University -----Original Message----- From: Hogan To: lowlandgorilla@aol.com; primate-science@primate.wisc.edu Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 8:26 am Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny Yes, gorilla females are not just REceptive, but are PROceptive during ovulation, as are orang, gibbon and human females. In fact of the living apes, it is really the chimp and bonobo who are different because females produce swellings and have an 'estrous' period during which they advertise their reproductive potential. Take care all.? ? Hogan? ? --On May 2, 2008 10:49:43 AM -0400 lowlandgorilla@aol.com wrote:? ? > Sexual solicitation (i.e. presenting, stance, staring, facial expressions)? >? > Rick? >? >? >? > -----Original Message-----? > From: Rebecca Richardson ? > To: Rui Boliqueime Martins Diogo ? > Cc: primate-science@primate.wisc.edu? > Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 7:07 am? > Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny? >? >? >? > quick question - how do gorillas "reveal" their ovulation, as opposed to? > idea of orantuans/humans having concealed ovulation?? >? > Rebecca Richardson? >? > Antioch New England-Environmental Studies PhD Program? > Tel: (678) 358-2833? >? >? >? > _______________________________________________? > Primate-Science mailing list? > Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu? > http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science? >? >? >? > __________________________________________________? > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site.? ? ? Hogan M. Sherrow? Ph.D. Candidate? Dept of Anthropology? Yale University? Assistant Professor? Dept of Sociology & Anthropology? Ohio University? Phone: (740) 597-2765? Fax: (740) 593-1365? _______________________________________________? Primate-Science mailing list? Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu? http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science? Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080516/fb32b814/attachment.html From lowlandgorilla at aol.com Fri May 16 14:42:41 2008 From: lowlandgorilla at aol.com (lowlandgorilla@aol.com) Date: Fri May 16 14:43:22 2008 Subject: [PS] Re: Estrus vs. estrous In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8CA85A422F5255B-85C-1E51@webmail-ne01.sysops.aol.com> Absolutely right, you caught that 'o' where it didn't belong. -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey French To: Hogan Cc: caldararo@aol.com; lowlandgorilla@aol.com; primate-science@primate.wisc.edu; primate-science-bounces@primate.wisc.edu Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 12:26 pm Subject: Estrus vs. estrous Estrus is a noun, indicating a period of sexual receptivity Estrous is an adjective, modifying nouns that have to do with reproductive cycles in most placental mammal females, as in "estrous cycle" Freshman mistake, people. Jeffrey A. French Varner Professor of Psychology and Biology University of Nebraska at Omaha 6001 Dodge Street Omaha NE 68182 402-554-2558 Voice 402-554-3121 FAX jfrench@mail.unomaha.edu http://avalon.unomaha.edu/~crc There are 10 kinds of people in this world. Those who get binary, and those who don't. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080516/394c7bee/attachment-0001.html From jgrehan at sciencebuff.org Fri May 16 14:47:49 2008 From: jgrehan at sciencebuff.org (John Grehan) Date: Fri May 16 14:47:28 2008 Subject: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny In-Reply-To: <0151BD24E2CA6FADB079EBE3@dhcp-210-176.cns.ohiou.edu> References: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF2@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> <8CA7A7AE4629119-DFC-4D2D@webmail-ne08.sysops.aol.com><23DC50AB3E8A838F00D646C2@dhcp-210-176.cns.ohiou.edu><8CA85965B1CDFD4-D5C-511@webmail-ne08.sysops.aol.com> <0151BD24E2CA6FADB079EBE3@dhcp-210-176.cns.ohiou.edu> Message-ID: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BCB6@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> I also came to similar conclusions when first researching the orangutan theory as I became aware that people applied the term 'estrous' in different ways, so much so that the term was almost useless for general comparative purposes. That aside, Hogan is correct in his statement that chimpanzees and bonobos are different from other female apes in the level of development of swelling. This may be viewed as an apomorphy for the genus Pan, or as a plesiomorphy along with less exaggerated swellings overlapping ovulation that some great apes inherited from a polymorphic common ancestor with OW monkeys. And in that respect humans and orangutans have a derived condition which I would contend is a synapomorphy even though it is not uniquely derived. John Grehan > -----Original Message----- > From: primate-science-bounces@primate.wisc.edu [mailto:primate-science- > bounces@primate.wisc.edu] On Behalf Of Hogan > Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 2:57 PM > To: caldararo@aol.com; lowlandgorilla@aol.com; primate- > science@primate.wisc.edu > Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny > > I wholeheartedly agree Niccolo, we have to be careful when describing > estrous periods or cycles. I should have been more careful and finished > my > thought which was that female chimpanzees and bonobos are different from > other female apes because they have exaggerated swellings in addition to > behavioral changes, like proceptivity, that are recognized as an estrous > period. Take care all. > > Hogan > > --On May 16, 2008 2:04:02 PM -0400 caldararo@aol.com wrote: > > > One has to be careful here in describing "estrous" periods. ?There are > > numerous forms of estrous in mammals, some physiological, some > > behavioral. > > > > > > Niccolo Caldararo, Ph.D. > > Dept. of Anthropology > > San Francisco State University > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Hogan > > To: lowlandgorilla@aol.com; primate-science@primate.wisc.edu > > Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 8:26 am > > Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny > > > > > > Yes, gorilla females are not just REceptive, but are PROceptive during > > ovulation, as are orang, gibbon and human females. In fact of the living > > apes, it is really the chimp and bonobo who are different because > females > > produce swellings and have an 'estrous' period during which they > > advertise their reproductive potential. Take care all. > > > > Hogan > > > > --On May 2, 2008 10:49:43 AM -0400 lowlandgorilla@aol.com wrote: > > > >> Sexual solicitation (i.e. presenting, stance, staring, facial > >> expressions) > >> Rick > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Rebecca Richardson > >> To: Rui Boliqueime Martins Diogo > >> Cc: primate-science@primate.wisc.edu > >> Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 7:07 am > >> Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny > >> > >> > >> > >> quick question - how do gorillas "reveal" their ovulation, as opposed > >> to? idea of orantuans/humans having concealed ovulation? > >> > >> Rebecca Richardson > >> > >> Antioch New England-Environmental Studies PhD Program > >> Tel: (678) 358-2833 > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Primate-Science mailing list > >> Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu > >> http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science > >> > >> > >> > >> __________________________________________________ > >> Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. > > > > > > Hogan M. Sherrow > > Ph.D. Candidate > > Dept of Anthropology > > Yale University > > Assistant Professor > > Dept of Sociology & Anthropology > > Ohio University > > Phone: (740) 597-2765 > > Fax: (740) 593-1365 > > _______________________________________________ > > Primate-Science mailing list > > Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu > > http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. > > > > Hogan M. Sherrow > Ph.D. Candidate > Dept of Anthropology > Yale University > Assistant Professor > Dept of Sociology & Anthropology > Ohio University > Phone: (740) 597-2765 > Fax: (740) 593-1365 > > _______________________________________________ > Primate-Science mailing list > Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu > http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science From tigerdyne at hotmail.com Fri May 16 16:00:21 2008 From: tigerdyne at hotmail.com (Tiger Buchman) Date: Fri May 16 16:00:04 2008 Subject: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny In-Reply-To: <8CA859FB78F5F42-85C-1CB6@webmail-ne01.sysops.aol.com> References: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF2@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org > <8CA7A7AE4629119-DFC-4D2D@webmail-ne08.sysops.aol.com> <23DC50AB3E8A838F00D646C2@dhcp-210-176.cns.ohiou.edu> <8CA85965B1CDFD4-D5C-511@webmail-ne08.sysops.aol.com> <8CA859FB78F5F42-85C-1CB6@webmail-ne01.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Some bio and neuro psychologist would argue that behavioral anything is phsiological. Me the conservative would argue that the only difference is that behavioral is more open to top-down processing. Monkey See -- Monkey Do To: caldararo@aol.com; sherrow@ohio.edu; primate-science@primate.wisc.eduSubject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogenyDate: Fri, 16 May 2008 15:11:03 -0400From: lowlandgorilla@aol.comCC: Hi Niccolo,My comments were directed at sexual receptivity which is within the definition of estrous. Rick Murphy-----Original Message-----From: caldararo@aol.comTo: sherrow@ohio.edu; lowlandgorilla@aol.com; primate-science@primate.wisc.eduSent: Fri, 16 May 2008 11:04 amSubject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny One has to be careful here in describing "estrous" periods. There are numerous forms of estrous in mammals, some physiological, some behavioral. Niccolo Caldararo, Ph.D. Dept. of Anthropology San Francisco State University-----Original Message-----From: Hogan To: lowlandgorilla@aol.com; primate-science@primate.wisc.eduSent: Fri, 2 May 2008 8:26 amSubject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny Yes, gorilla females are not just REceptive, but are PROceptive during ovulation, as are orang, gibbon and human females. In fact of the living apes, it is really the chimp and bonobo who are different because females produce swellings and have an 'estrous' period during which they advertise their reproductive potential. Take care all. Hogan --On May 2, 2008 10:49:43 AM -0400 lowlandgorilla@aol.com wrote: > Sexual solicitation (i.e. presenting, stance, staring, facial expressions) > > Rick > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rebecca Richardson > To: Rui Boliqueime Martins Diogo > Cc: primate-science@primate.wisc.edu > Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 7:07 am > Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny > > > > quick question - how do gorillas "reveal" their ovulation, as opposed to > idea of orantuans/humans having concealed ovulation? > > Rebecca Richardson > > Antioch New England-Environmental Studies PhD Program > Tel: (678) 358-2833 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Primate-Science mailing list > Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu > http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science > > > > __________________________________________________ > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. Hogan M. Sherrow Ph.D. Candidate Dept of Anthropology Yale University Assistant Professor Dept of Sociology & Anthropology Ohio University Phone: (740) 597-2765 Fax: (740) 593-1365 _______________________________________________ Primate-Science mailing list Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. _________________________________________________________________ Give to a good cause with every e-mail. Join the i?m Initiative from Microsoft. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?souce=EML_WL_ GoodCause -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080516/2d1df83d/attachment.html From Caldararo at aol.com Sat May 17 18:05:01 2008 From: Caldararo at aol.com (Caldararo@aol.com) Date: Sat May 17 18:04:57 2008 Subject: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny Message-ID: Dear Hogan: No, it is quite a common problem, often confused in print. Niccolo In a message dated 5/16/08 11:57:28 AM, sherrow@ohio.edu writes: > I wholeheartedly agree Niccolo, we have to be careful when describing > estrous periods or cycles.? I should have been more careful and finished my > thought which was that female chimpanzees and bonobos are different from > other female apes because they have exaggerated swellings in addition to > behavioral changes, like proceptivity, that are recognized as an estrous > period.? Take care all. > > Hogan > ************** Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080517/f91c9960/attachment.html From Caldararo at aol.com Sat May 17 18:07:34 2008 From: Caldararo at aol.com (Caldararo@aol.com) Date: Sat May 17 18:07:19 2008 Subject: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny Message-ID: Yes, understood. There are different kinds of receptivity, of course. Niccolo In a message dated 5/16/08 12:11:06 PM, Lowlandgorilla writes: > Hi Niccolo, > > My comments were directed at sexual receptivity which is within the > definition of estrous.? > > > Rick Murphy > > > ************** Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080517/a09d933c/attachment.html From Caldararo at aol.com Sat May 17 18:17:44 2008 From: Caldararo at aol.com (Caldararo@aol.com) Date: Sat May 17 18:17:33 2008 Subject: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny Message-ID: Dear Hogan: Yes, agreed. But it is good to discuss terms in some detail now and then, especially when we are speaking of such a diverse group as the Primates when so much of our research is affected by comparative work with other mammals. Niccolo In a message dated 5/16/08 12:21:36 PM, sherrow@ohio.edu writes: > I wholeheartedly agree Niccolo, we have to be careful when describing > estrous periods or cycles.? I should have been more careful and finished my > thought which was that female chimpanzees and bonobos are different from > other female apes because they have exaggerated swellings in addition to > behavioral changes, like proceptivity, that are recognized as an estrous > period.? Take care all. > > Hogan > ************** Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080517/65d2031a/attachment.html From Caldararo at aol.com Sat May 17 18:19:03 2008 From: Caldararo at aol.com (Caldararo@aol.com) Date: Sat May 17 18:18:58 2008 Subject: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny Message-ID: Dear Rick: Yes, clearly, understood. Niccolo In a message dated 5/16/08 1:28:10 PM, lowlandgorilla@aol.com writes: > Hi Niccolo, > > My comments were directed at sexual receptivity which is within the > definition of estrous.? > > > Rick Murphy > ************** Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080517/0091fe9d/attachment.html From hamel at primate.wisc.edu Mon May 19 14:00:03 2008 From: hamel at primate.wisc.edu (Ray Hamel) Date: Mon May 19 14:00:14 2008 Subject: [PS] Recent Primate News (May 19, 2008) Message-ID: <200805191900.m4JJ03OF000488@white.primate.wisc.edu> The following links were recently posted on Primates in the News http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/news/inthenews/ Ancestors had leg-up to trees BBC News, May 16, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8015 Non-human primates vital for neuroscience research Thaindian News, May 16, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8016 Learning monkey business Scotsman.com, May 19, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8017 The Chimp that Learned Sign Language NPR, May 19, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8018 Monkeys genetically modified to have Huntington's Reuters, May 18, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8019 ------ Primates in the News on the web: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/news/inthenews/ Primates in the News via RSS feed: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/rss/news.xml Primates in the News is maintained by the Lawrence Jacobsen (WPRC) Library at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. WPRC programs are supported by grant numbers RR000167 and RR015311, National Primate Centers Program, National Center for Research Resources, the National Institutes of Health. Note that the Wisconsin Primate Research Center provides Primates in the News as an informational service. We are not responsible for the content of linked sites, nor does inclusion of a link imply endorsement of the views expressed in that content. ------ From caldararo at aol.com Mon May 19 14:13:48 2008 From: caldararo at aol.com (caldararo@aol.com) Date: Mon May 19 14:14:33 2008 Subject: [PS] Re: Estrus vs. estrous In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8CA87FB98A34F3C-115C-786@webmail-nd01.sysops.aol.com> Friends: ???? One of the best essays on the use of the term is William Etkin's article "Reproductive Behaviors" in Social Behavior and Organization among Vertebrates, ed. by William Etkins, U. of Chicago Press, 1964:75-116.? As Etkins notes "The term estrus (older spelling, oestrus) previously meant the period of sexual receptivity or heat in the female.? Today, however, this is know to be correlated with changes in the entire reproductive system of the animal, and the term has been expanded to include these changes as well as heat behavior."? So we include the early period of the cycle in some animals, eg. the guinea pig or proestrus, , estrus proper ("heat" observed differently as behavior of note in some animals)? and metestrus or implantation (also recognized by some animals as a change in behavior) and a quiescent stage in some (diestrus).? But there are also associated ideas of variations in kind and structure of the cyclic nature or occurence, as a "rut period" paralleled by male periods of response or in song birds the growth of certain areas of the brain, seasonally polyestrus animals, permanently polyestrus or monestrus.? Varied, complex and requires detailed reference in all.? Still, one has to keep in mind that English uses Latin orthography and grammar and cannot always be expected to produce regular usage, especially by scientists who learn their Latin as only a taxonomic tool. Niccolo -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey French To: Hogan Cc: caldararo@aol.com; lowlandgorilla@aol.com; primate-science@primate.wisc.edu; primate-science-bounces@primate.wisc.edu Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 12:26 pm Subject: Estrus vs. estrous Estrus is a noun, indicating a period of sexual receptivity Estrous is an adjective, modifying nouns that have to do with reproductive cycles in most placental mammal females, as in "estrous cycle" Freshman mistake, people. Jeffrey A. French Varner Professor of Psychology and Biology University of Nebraska at Omaha 6001 Dodge Street Omaha NE 68182 402-554-2558 Voice 402-554-3121 FAX jfrench@mail.unomaha.edu http://avalon.unomaha.edu/~crc There are 10 kinds of people in this world. Those who get binary, and those who don't. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080519/1625a8bc/attachment.html From caldararo at aol.com Mon May 19 14:37:51 2008 From: caldararo at aol.com (caldararo@aol.com) Date: Mon May 19 14:37:41 2008 Subject: [PS] estrus Message-ID: <8CA87FEF5682B70-115C-907@webmail-nd01.sysops.aol.com> Friends: ???? One of the best essays on the use of the term is William Etkin's article "Reproductive Behaviors" in Social Behavior and Organization among Vertebrates, ed. by William Etkins, U. of Chicago Press, 1964:75-116.? As Etkins notes "The term estrus (older spelling, oestrus) previously meant the period of sexual receptivity or heat in the female.? Today, however, this is know to be correlated with changes in the entire reproductive system of the animal, and the term has been expanded to include these changes as well as heat behavior."? So we include the early period of the cycle in some animals, eg. the guinea pig or proestrus, , estrus proper ("heat" observed differently as behavior of note in some animals)? and metestrus or implantation (also recognized by some animals as a change in behavior) and a quiescent stage in some (diestrus).? But there are also associated ideas of variations in kind and structure of the cyclic nature or occurence, as a "rut period" paralleled by male periods of response or in song birds the growth of certain areas of the brain, seasonally polyestrus animals, permanently polyestrus or monestrus.? Varied, complex and requires detailed reference in all.? Still, one has to keep in mind that English uses Latin orthography and grammar and cannot always be expected to produce regular usage, especially by scientists who learn their Latin as only a taxonomic tool. Niccolo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080519/ee73dced/attachment.html From caldararo at aol.com Mon May 19 14:39:15 2008 From: caldararo at aol.com (caldararo@aol.com) Date: Mon May 19 14:39:17 2008 Subject: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny In-Reply-To: <8CA859FB78F5F42-85C-1CB6@webmail-ne01.sysops.aol.com> References: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BBF2@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org > <8CA7A7AE4629119-DFC-4D2D@webmail-ne08.sysops.aol.com> <23DC50AB3E8A838F00D646C2@dhcp-210-176.cns.ohiou.edu> <8CA85965B1CDFD4-D5C-511@webmail-ne08.sysops.aol.com> <8CA859FB78F5F42-85C-1CB6@webmail-ne01.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CA87FF25984344-115C-91B@webmail-nd01.sysops.aol.com> Friends: ???? One of the best essays on the use of the term is William Etkin's article "Reproductive Behaviors" in Social Behavior and Organization among Vertebrates, ed. by William Etkins, U. of Chicago Press, 1964:75-116.? As Etkins notes "The term estrus (older spelling, oestrus) previously meant the period of sexual receptivity or heat in the female.? Today, however, this is know to be correlated with changes in the entire reproductive system of the animal, and the term has been expanded to include these changes as well as heat behavior."? So we include the early period of the cycle in some animals, eg. the guinea pig or proestrus, , estrus proper ("heat" observed differently as behavior of note in some animals)? and metestrus or implantation (also recognized by some animals as a change in behavior) and a quiescent stage in some (diestrus).? But there are also associated ideas of variations in kind and structure of the cyclic nature or occurence, as a "rut period" paralleled by male periods of response or in song birds the growth of certain areas of the brain, seasonally polyestrus animals, permanently polyestrus or monestrus.? Varied, complex and requires detailed reference in all.? Still, one has to keep in mind that English uses Latin orthography and grammar and cannot always be expected to produce regular usage, especially by scientists who learn their Latin as only a taxonomic tool. Niccolo Plan your next roadtrip with Map -----Original Message----- From: lowlandgorilla@aol.com To: caldararo@aol.com; sherrow@ohio.edu; primate-science@primate.wisc.edu Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 12:11 pm Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny Hi Niccolo, My comments were directed at sexual receptivity which is within the definition of estrous.? Rick Murphy -----Original Message----- From: caldararo@aol.com To: sherrow@ohio.edu; lowlandgorilla@aol.com; primate-science@primate.wisc.edu Sent: Fri, 16 May 2008 11:04 am Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny One has to be careful here in describing "estrous" periods. ?There are numerous forms of estrous in mammals, some physiological, some behavioral. Niccolo Caldararo, Ph.D. Dept. of Anthropology San Francisco State University -----Original Message----- From: Hogan To: lowlandgorilla@aol.com; primate-science@primate.wisc.edu Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 8:26 am Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny Yes, gorilla females are not just REceptive, but are PROceptive during ovulation, as are orang, gibbon and human females. In fact of the living apes, it is really the chimp and bonobo who are different because females produce swellings and have an 'estrous' period during which they advertise their reproductive potential. Take care all.? ? Hogan? ? --On May 2, 2008 10:49:43 AM -0400 lowlandgorilla@aol.com wrote:? ? > Sexual solicitation (i.e. presenting, stance, staring, facial expressions)? >? > Rick? >? >? >? > -----Original Message-----? > From: Rebecca Richardson ? > To: Rui Boliqueime Martins Diogo ? > Cc: primate-science@primate.wisc.edu? > Sent: Fri, 2 May 2008 7:07 am? > Subject: Re: [PS] Orangs, humans and African apes: phylogeny? >? >? >? > quick question - how do gorillas "reveal" their ovulation, as opposed to? > idea of orantuans/humans having concealed ovulation?? >? > Rebecca Richardson? >? > Antioch New England-Environmental Studies PhD Program? > Tel: (678) 358-2833? >? >? >? > _______________________________________________? > Primate-Science mailing list? > Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu? > http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science? >? >? >? > __________________________________________________? > Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site.? ? ? Hogan M. Sherrow? Ph.D. Candidate? Dept of Anthropology? Yale University? Assistant Professor? Dept of Sociology & Anthropology? Ohio University? Phone: (740) 597-2765? Fax: (740) 593-1365? _______________________________________________? Primate-Science mailing list? Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu? http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science? Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. Plan your next roadtrip with MapQuest.com: America's #1 Mapping Site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080519/07ebc105/attachment-0001.html From hamel at primate.wisc.edu Tue May 20 00:00:03 2008 From: hamel at primate.wisc.edu (Ray Hamel) Date: Tue May 20 00:00:14 2008 Subject: [PS] Recent Primate-Jobs postings Message-ID: <200805200500.m4K503vm007746@white.primate.wisc.edu> The following listings were recently posted on Primate-Jobs http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs --POSITIONS AVAILABLE-- Institute for the Conservation of Tropical Environments Study Abroad in Madagascar, Stony Brook University http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs/listings/271 Research Assistant, Khao Yai Gibbon Project, Deutsches Primatenzentrum (DPZ), Leibniz-Institute for Primate Research http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs/listings/1206 Primate Research Lab Technician, The University of Chicago http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs/listings/1207 Darwin 200th monitoring and communicating biodiversity, Limbe wildlife centre http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs/listings/1208 ------ Primate-Jobs on the web: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs Primate-Jobs via RSS feed: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/rss/jobs.xml Primate-Jobs is maintained by the Lawrence Jacobsen (WPRC) Library at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. WPRC programs are supported by grant numbers RR000167 and RR015311, National Primate Centers Program, National Center for Research Resources, the National Institutes of Health. Note that the responsibility for conforming to local, state, regional and national employment listing regulations lies with the listing organization. The Wisconsin Primate Research Center, the University of Wisconsin, and the National Center for Research Resources (National Institutes of Health), will not be held liable for misinformation in, or consequences resulting from, postings to Primate-Jobs. Inclusion of a job listing does not imply endorsement of the listing organization. ------ From theoreticalprimatology at hotmail.com Tue May 20 09:57:10 2008 From: theoreticalprimatology at hotmail.com (Clara Jones) Date: Tue May 20 09:57:03 2008 Subject: [PS] FW: Jerry Wolff Message-ID: F.Y.I. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Dr. Clara B. Jones, Ph.D. New Cell: 910-603-9027Personal Webpage:http://clara.jones.socialpsychology.orgVisiting Faculty Member, National Evolutionary Synthesis Center (NESCent), Duke UniversityNESCent Webpage:http://www.nescent.org/dir/sabbatical_fellow.php?id=00005'Amid the pressure(s) of great events, a general principle gives no help.' HEGEL (1832) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Disclaimer: Please note that communication regarding professional and/or business-related events and/or activitiesin no manner implies that Dr. Jones intends to represent Fayetteville State University, to speak for said institution,or to promote or detract from its interests in any way. > Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 15:42:09 -0500> From: kkramer1@MEMPHIS.EDU> Subject: FW: Jerry Wolff> To: MAMMAL-L@SI-LISTSERV.SI.EDU> > ________________________________________> From: Steve Phelps [sphelps@ufl.edu]> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 2:10 PM> To: aophir@ufl.edu> Subject: Jerry Wolff> > Dear friends and colleagues,> > It is with great sadness that we write to tell you that Dr. Jerry> Wolff, of St. Cloud State University in Minnesota, recently passed> away. He entered the Canyonlands National Park in Utah on Sunday,> May 11, and did not return. For the last week, the National Park> Service has mounted an intense and thorough search. Park rangers,> local police, as well as friends and family involved with the> search, now presume him to be dead. His death at a healthy and> youthful 65, and at the peak of a prolific and successful career,> represents a profound loss. In accordance with Jerry???s wishes,> there are no plans for a memorial service. If you would like to> commemorate his passing, we ask that you consider making a> donation in his name to either the American Society of> Mammalogists, or to the Animal Behavior Society. The e-mail> addresses for relevant contacts at the two societies are given> below.> > With deepest sympathies,> > Alex Ophir and Steve Phelps> Department of Zoology> University of Florida> Gainesville, FL 32611> > Shawn Thomas> Biology Department> St. Johns University> Collegeville, MN 56321> > -----> > American Society of Mammalogists:> Dr. Thomas Kunz, kunz@bu.edu> Biology Department> Boston University> Boston, MA 02215> > Animal Behavior Society:> Dr. Ira B. Perelle, IBP1@aol.com> Psychology Department> Mercy College> Patterson, NY 12563 _________________________________________________________________ Change the world with e-mail. Join the i?m Initiative from Microsoft. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Join/Default.aspx?source=EML_WL_ChangeWorld -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080520/e9970797/attachment.html From hamel at primate.wisc.edu Tue May 20 14:00:03 2008 From: hamel at primate.wisc.edu (Ray Hamel) Date: Tue May 20 14:00:16 2008 Subject: [PS] Recent Primate News (May 20, 2008) Message-ID: <200805201900.m4KJ03TK018865@white.primate.wisc.edu> The following links were recently posted on Primates in the News http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/news/inthenews/ Curiosity Blamed In Orangutan Escape Tampa Tribune, May 20, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8020 Orangutans fight for their survival on a protected island Daily Mail, May 19, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8021 ------ Primates in the News on the web: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/news/inthenews/ Primates in the News via RSS feed: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/rss/news.xml Primates in the News is maintained by the Lawrence Jacobsen (WPRC) Library at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. WPRC programs are supported by grant numbers RR000167 and RR015311, National Primate Centers Program, National Center for Research Resources, the National Institutes of Health. Note that the Wisconsin Primate Research Center provides Primates in the News as an informational service. We are not responsible for the content of linked sites, nor does inclusion of a link imply endorsement of the views expressed in that content. ------ From nrowe at primate.org Wed May 21 22:54:14 2008 From: nrowe at primate.org (Noel Rowe) Date: Wed May 21 22:53:49 2008 Subject: [PS] Save Tanoe Swamps Forest Sign a petition In-Reply-To: <200805211713.m4LHDGnP005370@white.primate.wisc.edu> Message-ID: <005201c8bbbf$80c745f0$6402a8c0@pogonias3> Please help this group fight for this forest in Ivory Coast. www.manifeste-FMT.org Inza Kone Inza.Kone@gmx.net The Tano? Swamps Forest, the very last remaining forest block in the south-eastern corner of C?te d?Ivoire must be considered a top priority site for the conservation of Primates in West Africa. This forest is one of the latest refuges on earth for the most threatened three primate species in West Africa: the Miss Waldron red colobus (Piliocolobus badius waldronae), the diana roloway (Cercopithecus diana roloway) and the white-napped mangabey (Cercocebus atys lunulatus). This High Value Forest housing additionally several endemic plant species is poorly known and has no protection status. Since February 2008, an important Palm Oil Company has started the complete destruction and replacement of the Tano? Swamps Forest, the ecological and socio-economic importance of which is indubitable. To sign in the manifesto for the conservation of the Tano? Swamps Forest. , www.manifeste-FMT.org I confirmed that this is a legitimate group and petition drive with Scott McGraw mcgraw.43@osu.edu who works in Ivory Coast and he sent me further details. The Tano? Swamps Forest, a poorly known High Conservation Value Forest in jeopardy in south-eastern C?te-d?Ivoire The Tano? Swamps Forest (also called Ehy forest in the literature) is located in the south eastern corner of C?te d?Ivoire, West Africa. This swampy forest covers approximately 6.000 hectares (a more precise delineation is still required) between the Ehy Lagoon to the West and the Tano? River to the South and the East and is the only relatively large forest block remaining south-eastern C?te-d?Ivoire. In 1999, during a workshop organized in Accra, Ghana by Conservation International to identify Priority Conservation Sites in West Africa, the area comprising the Tano? Swamps Forest was characterized by an exceptional biological richness and considered as a top priority area for the conservation of mammals, birds and wetlands. To date, the Tano? Swamps Forest represents the very last shelter on earth for the Miss Waldron red colobus (Piliocolobus badius waldronae), and no doubt for the diana roloway (Cercopithecus diana roloway) and the Geoffroy?s colobus (Colobus vellerosus). Calls by the Miss Waldron red colobus were heard recently (March 2008) by a team of scientists from the Swiss Centre for Scientific Research in C?te d?Ivoire (CSRS, www.csrs.ch) in this forest, despite having previously been suspected extinct. Additionally, the diana roloway and the Geoffroy?s colobus have been found exceptionally abundant in this forest (February-March 2008), while these monkeys have been extinct or are on the verge of extinction elsewhere. The floristic importance of the Tano? Swamps Forest has also been demonstrated by the CSRS team. Indeed a preliminary plant inventory carried out in 20 plots of 400 m2 revealed that 33 plants species over 279 found in the Ehy forest are of conservation concern. These 33 plant species comprise 19 plant species endemic to either C?te-d?Ivoire or West Africa, 15 plant species endemic to Upper Guinea, and 13 species that are on the red lists of IUCN including the above mentioned endemic species. This High Conservation Value Forest represents a precious asset for the promotion of sustainable development in south-eastern C?te d?Ivoire and the future of the local communities is directly or indirectly linked with that of the forest. In late 2006, a pilot community-based management system for the Tano? Swamps Forest was launched under the impulsion of the CSRS team and the process of obtaining an official status of community-managed forest is under way. This pilot management system is strongly supported by CEPA (www.association-cepa.org) and WAPCA (www.wapca.org) and has received support from various donors including European zoos, Conservation International, and the Nature et Decouvertes Foundation. Despite all these efforts, the Tano? Swamps Forest and its unique biodiversity are currently under an alarming threat posed separately and simultaneously by PALMCI (a palm oil company) and a private investor since late February 2006. Indeed PALMCI and the private investor have started the replacement of the whole Ehy forest by palm oil plantations without any study of environmental impact, and ignoring the disagreement of numerous local peoples involved in the pilot management system. This is contrary to the statements of the country?s legislation and all the international conventions signed by C?te d?Ivoire including the Convention on Biodiversity. Best regards, Noel Noel Rowe Primate Conservation Inc 1411 Shannock Rd Charlestown, RI 02813 401 364 7140 Fax 401 364 6785 nrowe@primate.org website www.primate.org -----Original Message----- From: primate-science-bounces@primate.wisc.edu [mailto:primate-science-bounces@primate.wisc.edu] On Behalf Of primate-science-request@primate.wisc.edu Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 1:13 PM To: primate-science@primate.wisc.edu Subject: Primate-Science Digest, Vol 50, Issue 23 Send Primate-Science mailing list submissions to primate-science@primate.wisc.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to primate-science-request@primate.wisc.edu You can reach the person managing the list at primate-science-owner@primate.wisc.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Primate-Science digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Recent Primate News (May 20, 2008) (Ray Hamel) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 14:00:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Ray Hamel Subject: [PS] Recent Primate News (May 20, 2008) To: primate-science@primate.wisc.edu Message-ID: <200805201900.m4KJ03TK018865@white.primate.wisc.edu> The following links were recently posted on Primates in the News http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/news/inthenews/ Curiosity Blamed In Orangutan Escape Tampa Tribune, May 20, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8020 Orangutans fight for their survival on a protected island Daily Mail, May 19, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8021 ------ Primates in the News on the web: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/news/inthenews/ Primates in the News via RSS feed: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/rss/news.xml Primates in the News is maintained by the Lawrence Jacobsen (WPRC) Library at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. WPRC programs are supported by grant numbers RR000167 and RR015311, National Primate Centers Program, National Center for Research Resources, the National Institutes of Health. Note that the Wisconsin Primate Research Center provides Primates in the News as an informational service. We are not responsible for the content of linked sites, nor does inclusion of a link imply endorsement of the views expressed in that content. ------ ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Primate-Science mailing list Primate-Science@primate.wisc.edu http://www.primate.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/primate-science End of Primate-Science Digest, Vol 50, Issue 23 *********************************************** No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.21/1457 - Release Date: 5/20/2008 4:45 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.21/1457 - Release Date: 5/20/2008 4:45 PM From hamel at primate.wisc.edu Thu May 22 00:00:02 2008 From: hamel at primate.wisc.edu (Ray Hamel) Date: Thu May 22 00:00:11 2008 Subject: [PS] Recent Primate-Jobs postings Message-ID: <200805220500.m4M502j0013882@white.primate.wisc.edu> The following listings were recently posted on Primate-Jobs http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs --POSITIONS AVAILABLE-- Clinical Veterinarian, SNBL USA, Ltd. http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs/listings/1210 Veterinary Technician, SNBL USA, Ltd. http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs/listings/1211 ------ Primate-Jobs on the web: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs Primate-Jobs via RSS feed: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/rss/jobs.xml Primate-Jobs is maintained by the Lawrence Jacobsen (WPRC) Library at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. WPRC programs are supported by grant numbers RR000167 and RR015311, National Primate Centers Program, National Center for Research Resources, the National Institutes of Health. Note that the responsibility for conforming to local, state, regional and national employment listing regulations lies with the listing organization. The Wisconsin Primate Research Center, the University of Wisconsin, and the National Center for Research Resources (National Institutes of Health), will not be held liable for misinformation in, or consequences resulting from, postings to Primate-Jobs. Inclusion of a job listing does not imply endorsement of the listing organization. ------ From hamel at primate.wisc.edu Thu May 22 14:00:04 2008 From: hamel at primate.wisc.edu (Ray Hamel) Date: Thu May 22 14:00:12 2008 Subject: [PS] Recent Primate News (May 22, 2008) Message-ID: <200805221900.m4MJ04KW024987@white.primate.wisc.edu> The following links were recently posted on Primates in the News http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/news/inthenews/ Monkey Diets Offer New Clue on Binge Eating ABC News, May 21, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8022 Climbing as Easy as Walking for Small Primates National Geographic News, May 15, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8023 Chimps Agree: A Bird in Hand Is Worth Two in the Bush Discover, May 14, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8024 ------ Primates in the News on the web: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/news/inthenews/ Primates in the News via RSS feed: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/rss/news.xml Primates in the News is maintained by the Lawrence Jacobsen (WPRC) Library at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. WPRC programs are supported by grant numbers RR000167 and RR015311, National Primate Centers Program, National Center for Research Resources, the National Institutes of Health. Note that the Wisconsin Primate Research Center provides Primates in the News as an informational service. We are not responsible for the content of linked sites, nor does inclusion of a link imply endorsement of the views expressed in that content. ------ From hamel at primate.wisc.edu Fri May 23 14:00:03 2008 From: hamel at primate.wisc.edu (Ray Hamel) Date: Fri May 23 14:00:11 2008 Subject: [PS] Recent Primate News (May 23, 2008) Message-ID: <200805231900.m4NJ03Ml011640@white.primate.wisc.edu> The following links were recently posted on Primates in the News http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/news/inthenews/ Surgeon Operates To Rescue Chimp With Rare Deformity ScienceDaily, May 19, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8025 Monkey business may mirror our human culture, says chimp expert The Scotsman, May 21, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8026 US plans more primate research Nature, May 21, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8027 ------ Primates in the News on the web: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/news/inthenews/ Primates in the News via RSS feed: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/rss/news.xml Primates in the News is maintained by the Lawrence Jacobsen (WPRC) Library at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. WPRC programs are supported by grant numbers RR000167 and RR015311, National Primate Centers Program, National Center for Research Resources, the National Institutes of Health. Note that the Wisconsin Primate Research Center provides Primates in the News as an informational service. We are not responsible for the content of linked sites, nor does inclusion of a link imply endorsement of the views expressed in that content. ------ From spidersflies at yahoo.com Sat May 24 06:10:56 2008 From: spidersflies at yahoo.com (brooke aldrich) Date: Sat May 24 06:10:34 2008 Subject: [PS] hoping to find article from veterinary journal.... Message-ID: <934362.46528.qm@web54112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hello - I realise that it is a longshot, and is not even primate-related... but is there anyone out there who could provide me with a PDF of the following article: Steiner, JM; Williams, DA. Feline exocrine pancreatic disorders: insufficiency, neoplasia, and uncommon conditions. The Compendium on Continuing Education for the Practicing Veterinarian. 1997;19(7):836-848. Thanks! Brooke From maginnis at ohsu.edu Sat May 24 12:02:04 2008 From: maginnis at ohsu.edu (Gwendalyn Maginnis) Date: Sat May 24 12:02:01 2008 Subject: [PS] Call for Case Reports- APV Message-ID: Call for Case Reports and ?What?s your Diagnosis? presentations from APV members and seminar attendees: Association of Primate Veterinarians (APV) 36th Annual Workshop November 6-8, 2008 Indianapolis, Indiana The deadline for submitting case reports and/or ?What?s Your Diagnosis?? for the 36th Annual APV Workshop in Indianapolis, IN is August 1, 2008. Please keep length of abstract to one page. If you have time constraints and cannot submit your abstract by this date, please submit your intent to present, presentation title, and author(s). Clearly identify the presenting author and provide curriculum vitae of the presenter by the August 1 deadline date. For those requiring additional time full abstract submittals will be required no later than August 15, 2008. Electronic versions (PowerPoint, video) of the case report and/or ?What?s Your Diagnosis?? are due no later than October 1, 2008. Electronic abstracts of case reports can be submitted online through the APV website (http://www.primatevets.org). Please contact Drs. Susanne Rensing (Susanne.Rensing@covance.com), phone 49-251-9798266 or Gwen Maginnis (maginnis@ohsu.edu) if you have any questions about case reports. **NEW**NEW**NEW** This year you will also have an option to present your information in a poster format rather than a presentation. Abstracts for posters will be submitted on the same form as used for the oral presentations. You will be able to select if you prefer to present your material during one of the case report sessions or as a poster. Please contact Dr. Rick Rockar (richard.rockar@bms.com), phone 609-252-3679. If you are not an APV member and are interested in membership, applications are available online at http://www.primatevets.org. Additional information concerning the workshop can be found on the web site at www.primatevets.org. About The APV The Association of Primate Veterinarians (APV) is an international organization consisting of over 400 veterinarians concerned with the health, care and welfare of nonhuman primates (NHPs). APV was informally initiated in 1973 by a key group of attendees at the Workshop in the Clinical Care of Nonhuman Primates, March 7-8, 1973 (National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, Maryland). The organization became more formally recognized, as the Association of Primate Veterinary Clinicians, when bylaws were established at the Annual Workshop in 1979. In 1983, the organization's name was changed to the Association of Primate Veterinarians. Our current membership consists of veterinarians who work with, provide and oversee care for a wide variety of NHP species in a broad range of settings. These settings include research facilities in major universities including the National Primate Research Centers, industry, and zoos as well as breeders and importers of primates for research. Our objectives are to promote the dissemination of information relating to the health, care and welfare of nonhuman primates; to provide a mechanism by which primate veterinarians may speak collectively on matters regarding nonhuman primates; and to promote fellowship among primate veterinarians. About the Annual APV Workshop The Annual APV workshop is held prior to the national AALAS convention and is held either close to or in the hosting city. The purpose of the workshop is to present new ideas, clinical cases, facility changes that the veterinary membership has seen in the field. The formal seminar and informal social activities at the workshop provided a means to network with other primate veterinarians and share ideas. From hamel at primate.wisc.edu Tue May 27 00:00:03 2008 From: hamel at primate.wisc.edu (Ray Hamel) Date: Tue May 27 00:00:24 2008 Subject: [PS] Recent Primate-Jobs postings Message-ID: <200805270500.m4R503pm020778@white.primate.wisc.edu> The following listings were recently posted on Primate-Jobs http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs --POSITIONS AVAILABLE-- Volunteer - Sanaga-Yong Chimpanzee Rescue Center, In Defense of Animals-Africa http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs/listings/1212 ------ Primate-Jobs on the web: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs Primate-Jobs via RSS feed: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/rss/jobs.xml Primate-Jobs is maintained by the Lawrence Jacobsen (WPRC) Library at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. WPRC programs are supported by grant numbers RR000167 and RR015311, National Primate Centers Program, National Center for Research Resources, the National Institutes of Health. Note that the responsibility for conforming to local, state, regional and national employment listing regulations lies with the listing organization. The Wisconsin Primate Research Center, the University of Wisconsin, and the National Center for Research Resources (National Institutes of Health), will not be held liable for misinformation in, or consequences resulting from, postings to Primate-Jobs. Inclusion of a job listing does not imply endorsement of the listing organization. ------ From jgrehan at sciencebuff.org Tue May 27 16:05:11 2008 From: jgrehan at sciencebuff.org (John Grehan) Date: Tue May 27 16:04:57 2008 Subject: [PS] primate ear Message-ID: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BD01@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> For those of you interested in keeping tabs on the latest developments with the orangutan evidence for hominid origins, I now have further corroboration of the unique anatomical similarity of the orangutan and human external ears now that I have a high resolution image of a gibbon ear (http://www.sciencebuff.org/externalear.php). The gibbon ear (Hylobates lar, and agilis) show that they, like perhaps all other primates, have a relatively broad separation of the inner and outer helix. In addition the gibbons show the transverse convex bar between inner and outer helix that is otherwise only found in gorillas and some chimpanzees. I am now willing to bet the human-orangutan similarity represents another will corroborated uniquely shared character that supports (along with at least about 30 other characters) a unique common ancestor. John Grehan Dr. John R. Grehan Director of Science and Collections Buffalo Museum of Science1020 Humboldt Parkway Buffalo, NY 14211-1193 email: jgrehan@sciencebuff.org Phone: (716) 896-5200 ext 372 Panbiogeography http://www.sciencebuff.org/biogeography_and_evolutionary_biology.php Ghost moth research http://www.sciencebuff.org/systematics_and_evolution_of_hepialdiae.php Human evolution and the great apes http://www.sciencebuff.org/human_origin_and_the_great_apes.php -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://white.primate.wisc.edu/pipermail/primate-science/attachments/20080527/be6d0baa/attachment.html From hamel at primate.wisc.edu Thu May 29 00:00:03 2008 From: hamel at primate.wisc.edu (Ray Hamel) Date: Thu May 29 00:00:15 2008 Subject: [PS] Recent Primate-Jobs postings Message-ID: <200805290500.m4T503RV024416@white.primate.wisc.edu> The following listings were recently posted on Primate-Jobs http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs --POSITIONS AVAILABLE-- Baboon Behaviour and Physiology Field Assistant, George Washington University http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs/listings/1213 ------ Primate-Jobs on the web: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/jobs Primate-Jobs via RSS feed: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/rss/jobs.xml Primate-Jobs is maintained by the Lawrence Jacobsen (WPRC) Library at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. WPRC programs are supported by grant numbers RR000167 and RR015311, National Primate Centers Program, National Center for Research Resources, the National Institutes of Health. Note that the responsibility for conforming to local, state, regional and national employment listing regulations lies with the listing organization. The Wisconsin Primate Research Center, the University of Wisconsin, and the National Center for Research Resources (National Institutes of Health), will not be held liable for misinformation in, or consequences resulting from, postings to Primate-Jobs. Inclusion of a job listing does not imply endorsement of the listing organization. ------ From hamel at primate.wisc.edu Thu May 29 14:00:03 2008 From: hamel at primate.wisc.edu (Ray Hamel) Date: Thu May 29 14:00:11 2008 Subject: [PS] Recent Primate News (May 29, 2008) Message-ID: <200805291900.m4TJ03af005104@white.primate.wisc.edu> The following links were recently posted on Primates in the News http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/news/inthenews/ Monkeys show off their social skills Oroville Mercury-Register, May 25, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8028 Baboons, beards and Sapolsky Stanford Daily, May 27, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8029 How Are Humans Unique? New York Times, May 25, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8030 German research student missing in Congo Associated Press, May 27, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8031 Is Civilization the Result of Humans' Need to Share? Scientific American, May 27, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8032 Monkeys Think, Moving Artificial Arm as Own New York Times, May 29, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8033 ------ Primates in the News on the web: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/news/inthenews/ Primates in the News via RSS feed: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/rss/news.xml Primates in the News is maintained by the Lawrence Jacobsen (WPRC) Library at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. WPRC programs are supported by grant numbers RR000167 and RR015311, National Primate Centers Program, National Center for Research Resources, the National Institutes of Health. Note that the Wisconsin Primate Research Center provides Primates in the News as an informational service. We are not responsible for the content of linked sites, nor does inclusion of a link imply endorsement of the views expressed in that content. ------ From hamel at primate.wisc.edu Fri May 30 14:00:04 2008 From: hamel at primate.wisc.edu (Ray Hamel) Date: Fri May 30 14:00:14 2008 Subject: [PS] Recent Primate News (May 30, 2008) Message-ID: <200805301900.m4UJ04EB021242@white.primate.wisc.edu> The following links were recently posted on Primates in the News http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/news/inthenews/ 37 injured in monkey attack in Nikirai village The Statesman, India, May 29, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8036 Should Chimps Be Given Human Rights? Fox News, May 29, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8037 Did Walking On Two Feet Begin With A Shuffle? ScienceDaily, May 30, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8038 Nothing beats a home-cooked meal -- even for apes New Scientist, May 28, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8039 Who's the daddy? Swiss zoo in gorilla paternity mix-up AFP, May 29, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8040 ------ Primates in the News on the web: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/news/inthenews/ Primates in the News via RSS feed: http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/rss/news.xml Primates in the News is maintained by the Lawrence Jacobsen (WPRC) Library at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. WPRC programs are supported by grant numbers RR000167 and RR015311, National Primate Centers Program, National Center for Research Resources, the National Institutes of Health. Note that the Wisconsin Primate Research Center provides Primates in the News as an informational service. We are not responsible for the content of linked sites, nor does inclusion of a link imply endorsement of the views expressed in that content. ------ From jgrehan at sciencebuff.org Fri May 30 22:21:18 2008 From: jgrehan at sciencebuff.org (John Grehan) Date: Fri May 30 22:20:55 2008 Subject: [PS] Recent Primate News (May 30, 2008) In-Reply-To: <200805301900.m4UJ04EB021242@white.primate.wisc.edu> References: <200805301900.m4UJ04EB021242@white.primate.wisc.edu> Message-ID: <26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE7990131BD21@bmsmail.sciencebuff.org> Did Walking On Two Feet Begin With A Shuffle? ScienceDaily, May 30, 2008 http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/scripts/external.php?link=8038 Stand and Shuffle Here we go again with imagining why an evolutionary change was somehow a good idea. This time it is with another speculation on deciding the right benefit responsible for bipedalism. In this paper the authors begin with: "Bipedal shuffling may have been employed because it avoids the cost of raising the trunk from the quadrupedal orientation, which we assume is the habitual locomotor stance of protohominids" So here they assume that it was habitual locomotor stance of protohominids (in other words, they don't have an ounce of empirical evidence, so they just dream it up). Then having dreamed it up they also dream up cost saving as a good enough reason. If you can swallow the assumptions you are ready for them to be "analytically tested" so that "using reasonable model parameters, open distances of 9-16 m support the use of bipedal shuffling." Having made their fantasies a cost effective they then assert that "Protohominids may [notice the weasel word] have used shuffling as an energetically effective way to traverse between resource patches." To me this is about as non-scientific as creationism. I would have more respect for their "energetic' models if there was actually empirical evidence of shuffling in the first place, but of course there is nothing. And out of nothing, nothing comes. And since I have been rightly criticized on this list for quoting teleology from just the press release I will now quote it from the article itself. On p. 484 The authors state "Given the energy optimization premise [in other words, swallow the first assumption], if the hominid's bipedalism used less (or equivalent energy) as other locomotor forms [in other words they don't have a clue, so just accept the premise], then bipedalism arose TO reduce locomotor energy expenditure" There you have it, a nice teleological phrase (and one based on layers of assumptions) that would warm the cockles of any intelligent design theorist. OK - so I have a hard time understanding why this kind of research is scientifically sound, but of course most scientists do not. I won't comment on the absurdity of their use of a chimpanzee model just because others do. John Grehan